Is Death Inherently Evil

Is Death Inherently/Intrinsically Evil?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 54.5%
  • No

    Votes: 13 39.4%
  • I do not know

    Votes: 2 6.1%

  • Total voters
    33
Status
Not open for further replies.
A couple verses from Revelation gives us a hint:

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Death is equated with hell, they ultimately will be consigned to the lake of fire.
 
So - when God puts someone to death:

Genesis 38:7
But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD, and the LORD put him to death.

Isaiah 65:15
You shall leave your name to my chosen for a curse,and the Lord GOD will put you to death,but his servants he will call by another name.

What is happening here?

How about the nation of Israel and the destruction of the Amalekites? Is God directing them to do evil in His name?
 
So - when God puts someone to death:

Isaiah 65:15
You shall leave your name to my chosen for a curse,and the Lord GOD will put you to death,but his servants he will call by another name.

What is happening here?

How about the nation of Israel and the destruction of the Amalekites? Is God directing them to do evil in His name?

The result is evil, but evil is the proper reward. God isn't evil for commanding the result.
 
"To live is Christ to die is gain"

I don't this the Apostle Paul considered death intrinsically "evil".

Death is certainly a consequence of evil, but I have always considered it more "neutral" than inherently evil. For the elect, it is simply a transition point...
 
Last edited:
The death of men is evil, a curse upon us for certain but I also believe as I said in an earlier thread that death was part of the creation order and Adam had dominion over even it pre-fall.
 
Death is God's just punishment for sin. How can that be evil? Death certianly is tragic and foreign to the created order, but it is still just. But I'm open to more discussion on these points. :2cents:
 
Death is God's just punishment for sin. How can that be evil? Death certianly is tragic and foreign to the created order, but it is still just. But I'm open to more discussion on these points. :2cents:

{Just speaking about human death. Image bearer death. Not trying to get into animal death, etc.}


An evil can be used for justice.

And, an evil thing doesn't have to be an *immoral* thing. There's a difference.

For example, if a man has a sucking chest wound, and the only way to restore his breathing is to puncture his lung and insert a bic pen into it, that's a necessary evil, but it's not immoral.
 
Death is an enemy even if it is vanquished. Not all human death is proximately cause by something that is evil but death itself is a curse. Even Christians don't celebrate death but the fact that we have union with Christ and victory beyond the grave.
 
Death is God's just punishment for sin. How can that be evil? Death certianly is tragic and foreign to the created order, but it is still just. But I'm open to more discussion on these points. :2cents:


The justice in the punishment is not evil but righteous and good-- it is a return of evil for evil. That's what the wages of sin are.

We know that "The sting of death is sin." (1 Cor. 15:56) and that Christ conquered death. (v.54-55). He didn't come to conquer something neutral or good.

Disobedience is sin. Adam's sin introduced death. Sin--> death. God hates sin and God hated death enough to sacrifice his son to conquer it. I can't see how it would be considered anything but inherently evil.
 
Death is God's just punishment for sin. How can that be evil? Death certianly is tragic and foreign to the created order, but it is still just. But I'm open to more discussion on these points. :2cents:

{Just speaking about human death. Image bearer death. Not trying to get into animal death, etc.}


An evil can be used for justice.

And, an evil thing doesn't have to be an *immoral* thing. There's a difference.

For example, if a man has a sucking chest wound, and the only way to restore his breathing is to puncture his lung and insert a bic pen into it, that's a necessary evil, but it's not immoral.

True. But death is clearly set out as a just punishment by God himself. He executes his justice in perfect conformity to his holy nature. Death is that punishment.

What do you mean that something can be evil and not immoral? In the case above, the action to save the man's life wasn't evil but good, though painful for him. Are you using a broader more popular definition of evil?
 
Death is God's just punishment for sin. How can that be evil? Death certianly is tragic and foreign to the created order, but it is still just. But I'm open to more discussion on these points. :2cents:


The justice in the punishment is not evil but righteous and good-- it is a return of evil for evil. That's what the wages of sin are.

We know that "The sting of death is sin." (1 Cor. 15:56) and that Christ conquered death. (v.54-55). He didn't come to conquer something neutral or good.

Disobedience is sin. Adam's sin introduced death. Sin--> death. God hates sin and God hated death enough to sacrifice his son to conquer it. I can't see how it would be considered anything but inherently evil.

But death is the execution of His wrath, which is perfectly just and good. By conquering death, Christ was taking the just wrath of God upon himself. Thus, reversing the effects of sin which is evil, and so removing the cause of death from us and giving us eternal life.
 
But death is the execution of His wrath, which is perfectly just and good. By conquering death, Christ was taking the just wrath of God upon himself. Thus, reversing the effects of sin which is evil, and so removing the cause of death from us and giving us eternal life.

Sure, he removed the cause of death, and then he tossed death into the lake of fire, along with other ill-favored things, like hell and Satan and the beast.

I don't want to make too much of this. It seems straightforward.

On the other track, regarding your question to Paul about definition of evil, I skimmed my lexicons for Hebrew and Greek and saw that the respective words are used both for moral evil and for just plain calamity, natural illness, and the like. So it is fair (and Biblical) to say a neutral injury is evil and yet not immoral. It's not my point, but a point of information.
 
But death is the execution of His wrath, which is perfectly just and good. By conquering death, Christ was taking the just wrath of God upon himself. Thus, reversing the effects of sin which is evil, and so removing the cause of death from us and giving us eternal life.

Sure, he removed the cause of death, and then he tossed death into the lake of fire, along with other ill-favored things, like hell and Satan and the beast.

I don't want to make too much of this. It seems straightforward.
But not all death is thrown away. The reprobate endure death for eternity.

On the other track, regarding your question to Paul about definition of evil, I skimmed my lexicons for Hebrew and Greek and saw that the respective words are used both for moral evil and for just plain calamity, natural illness, and the like. So it is fair (and Biblical) to say a neutral injury is evil and yet not immoral. It's not my point, but a point of information.

Good point. I'm just trying to clarify in what sense death is evil.
 
Patrick,

Hell is a just punishment. Hell is evil. An evil place for evil people.

I don't think I am using a broad or popular definition of evil. There are such things as natural evils, for instance. They are not immoral, though they are evil. In the Bible calamities, storms, invading armies, etc., are called "evils," yet it is God who sends them. God sending a drought is called an evil, and indeed he is said to "create" evil. The drought qua drought isn't "immoral," but it is evil. There are "devoted things" that were "purged as evil" yet we wouldn't call blocks of wood "immoral." People may have been "immoral" in how they used them (as idols, for instance), but carved wood isn't "immoral." Indeed, the crippled man suffered from an evil (though it was not his sin or his parents sin that made him that way), but being crippled isn't "immoral." Pain in childbirth is an evil, it's not "immoral." Etc., etc., etc.,

It's not a good that a man got his chest punctured. Saving his life was good, but getting a hole in his chest wasn't. An evil was done for the greater good. But an evil was still done.

I'd begin by defining evil as rebellion against a personal God. When humans due this it is called "moral evil." When nature does this it is called, naturally, "natural evil." Having to put holes in peoples chest is a natural evil. It's not an intended action in God's world. Thus it is, in a sense, a rebellion of God's desired order (or modus operandi).

Hopefully I've helped more than confused....
 
Patrick,

Hell is a just punishment. Hell is evil. An evil place for evil people.

I don't think I am using a broad or popular definition of evil. There are such things as natural evils, for instance. They are not immoral, though they are evil. In the Bible calamities, storms, invading armies, etc., are called "evils," yet it is God who sends them. God sending a drought is called an evil, and indeed he is said to "create" evil. The drought qua drought isn't "immoral," but it is evil. There are "devoted things" that were "purged as evil" yet we wouldn't call blocks of wood "immoral." People may have been "immoral" in how they used them (as idols, for instance), but carved wood isn't "immoral." Indeed, the crippled man suffered from an evil (though it was not his sin or his parents sin that made him that way), but being crippled isn't "immoral." Pain in childbirth is an evil, it's not "immoral." Etc., etc., etc.,

It's not a good that a man got his chest punctured. Saving his life was good, but getting a hole in his chest wasn't. An evil was done for the greater good. But an evil was still done.

I'd begin by defining evil as rebellion against a personal God. When humans due this it is called "moral evil." When nature does this it is called, naturally, "natural evil." Having to put holes in peoples chest is a natural evil. It's not an intended action in God's world. Thus it is, in a sense, a rebellion of God's desired order (or modus operandi).

Hopefully I've helped more than confused....
Is Hell itself evil or rather a just glorious divine wrath?
 
The people in Hell are evil, but didn't God create Hell?

Are hell and death necessary evils?

Are they evil in and of themselves?

The natural man would say an eternal place of suffering and the ending of human life is evil, thus their conclusion that God is evil. One could see a simple syllogism.
 
Patrick,

Hell is a just punishment. Hell is evil. An evil place for evil people.

I don't think I am using a broad or popular definition of evil. There are such things as natural evils, for instance. They are not immoral, though they are evil. In the Bible calamities, storms, invading armies, etc., are called "evils," yet it is God who sends them. God sending a drought is called an evil, and indeed he is said to "create" evil. The drought qua drought isn't "immoral," but it is evil. There are "devoted things" that were "purged as evil" yet we wouldn't call blocks of wood "immoral." People may have been "immoral" in how they used them (as idols, for instance), but carved wood isn't "immoral." Indeed, the crippled man suffered from an evil (though it was not his sin or his parents sin that made him that way), but being crippled isn't "immoral." Pain in childbirth is an evil, it's not "immoral." Etc., etc., etc.,

It's not a good that a man got his chest punctured. Saving his life was good, but getting a hole in his chest wasn't. An evil was done for the greater good. But an evil was still done.

I'd begin by defining evil as rebellion against a personal God. When humans due this it is called "moral evil." When nature does this it is called, naturally, "natural evil." Having to put holes in peoples chest is a natural evil. It's not an intended action in God's world. Thus it is, in a sense, a rebellion of God's desired order (or modus operandi).

Hopefully I've helped more than confused....
Is Hell itself evil or rather a just glorious divine wrath?

Are calamities themselves evils, or just glorious divine wrath?
 
The people in Hell are evil, but didn't God create Hell?

Are hell and death necessary evils?

Are they evil in and of themselves?

The natural man would say an eternal place of suffering and the ending of human life is evil, thus their conclusion that God is evil. One could see a simple syllogism.

Yes, God created hell. he created everything. One could see a simple syllogism.

Isa. 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Amos 4: 9 "Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards,
I struck them with blight and mildew.
Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.

10 "I sent plagues among you
as I did to Egypt.
I killed your young men with the sword,
along with your captured horses.
I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.

These are evils. The Lord sent them, and made them.

Is human death evil in itself? I answered that in the other thread and here. At this point in the discussion is where you're supposed to propose a counter-argument, not ask me to repeat my previously stated one. ;)

Regarding your syllogism. So what. Anyone can make a syllogism. Is that supposed to scare me into changing my belief? That "someone could make a syllogism." I'm not bothered that someone can put together a simple syllogism. If the premises are false, then what do I care? :cheers:
 
Patrick,

Hell is a just punishment. Hell is evil. An evil place for evil people.

I don't think I am using a broad or popular definition of evil. There are such things as natural evils, for instance. They are not immoral, though they are evil. In the Bible calamities, storms, invading armies, etc., are called "evils," yet it is God who sends them. God sending a drought is called an evil, and indeed he is said to "create" evil. The drought qua drought isn't "immoral," but it is evil. There are "devoted things" that were "purged as evil" yet we wouldn't call blocks of wood "immoral." People may have been "immoral" in how they used them (as idols, for instance), but carved wood isn't "immoral." Indeed, the crippled man suffered from an evil (though it was not his sin or his parents sin that made him that way), but being crippled isn't "immoral." Pain in childbirth is an evil, it's not "immoral." Etc., etc., etc.,

It's not a good that a man got his chest punctured. Saving his life was good, but getting a hole in his chest wasn't. An evil was done for the greater good. But an evil was still done.

I'd begin by defining evil as rebellion against a personal God. When humans due this it is called "moral evil." When nature does this it is called, naturally, "natural evil." Having to put holes in peoples chest is a natural evil. It's not an intended action in God's world. Thus it is, in a sense, a rebellion of God's desired order (or modus operandi).

Hopefully I've helped more than confused....
Is Hell itself evil or rather a just glorious divine wrath?

Are calamities themselves evils, or just glorious divine wrath?
Consequences of the fall brought about by the wickedness of man, creation moans with birthing pains from this curse and wicked men will do what the desires of their heart lead them to do.
 
The people in Hell are evil, but didn't God create Hell?

Are hell and death necessary evils?

Are they evil in and of themselves?

The natural man would say an eternal place of suffering and the ending of human life is evil, thus their conclusion that God is evil. One could see a simple syllogism.

Yes, God created hell. he created everything. One could see a simple syllogism.

Isa. 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Amos 4: 9 "Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards,
I struck them with blight and mildew.
Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.

10 "I sent plagues among you
as I did to Egypt.
I killed your young men with the sword,
along with your captured horses.
I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.

These are evils. The Lord sent them, and made them.

Is human death evil in itself? I answered that in the other thread and here. At this point in the discussion is where you're supposed to propose a counter-argument, not ask me to repeat my previously stated one. ;)

Regarding your syllogism. So what. Anyone can make a syllogism. Is that supposed to scare me into changing my belief? That "someone could make a syllogism." I'm not bothered that someone can put together a simple syllogism. If the premises are false, then what do I care? :cheers:

Well, I guess since you reject the premise out of hand and have a perfectly formed opinion, that is that! :) Next subject! The authority has spoken...:)

I am still of a mind that death and hell, in and of themselves, while not pleasant or desirable are not categorized as inherently evil. I think they are necessary - tools God uses to enforce His justice and glorify Himself. I'd say it is analogous to the death penalty in our criminal justice system, only perfectly so. The death of a heinous person is not considered evil by God nor Man.

Also, in certain circumstances, death could be a blessed relief.
 
Is Hell itself evil or rather a just glorious divine wrath?

Are calamities themselves evils, or just glorious divine wrath?
Consequences of the fall brought about by the wickedness of man, creation moans with birthing pains from this curse and wicked men will do what the desires of their heart lead them to do.

I guess I'll not be so cryptic.

The Bible calls them evils. God says he uses them for punishment.

Therefore, something can be both evil and used for divine punishment.
 
The people in Hell are evil, but didn't God create Hell?

Are hell and death necessary evils?

Are they evil in and of themselves?

The natural man would say an eternal place of suffering and the ending of human life is evil, thus their conclusion that God is evil. One could see a simple syllogism.

Yes, God created hell. he created everything. One could see a simple syllogism.

Isa. 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Amos 4: 9 "Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards,
I struck them with blight and mildew.
Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.

10 "I sent plagues among you
as I did to Egypt.
I killed your young men with the sword,
along with your captured horses.
I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps,
yet you have not returned to me,"
declares the LORD.

These are evils. The Lord sent them, and made them.

Is human death evil in itself? I answered that in the other thread and here. At this point in the discussion is where you're supposed to propose a counter-argument, not ask me to repeat my previously stated one. ;)

Regarding your syllogism. So what. Anyone can make a syllogism. Is that supposed to scare me into changing my belief? That "someone could make a syllogism." I'm not bothered that someone can put together a simple syllogism. If the premises are false, then what do I care? :cheers:

Well, I guess since you reject the premise out of hand and have a perfectly formed opinion, that is that! :) Next subject! The authority has spoken...:)

I am still of a mind that death and hell, in and of themselves, while not pleasant or desirable are not categorized as inherently evil. I think they are necessary - tools God uses to enforce His justice and glorify Himself. I'd say it is analogous to the death penalty in our criminal justice system, only perfectly so. The death of a heinous person is not considered evil by God nor Man.

Also, in certain circumstances, death could be a blessed relief.


The problem with all this is that you've not bothered to rebut or interact with any of the arguments I gave....

That I reject a premise doesn't mean you can't offer it in the context of an argument. I'm always open to inspect someone's formal syllogism. Care to put it up, or were you just arguing ad baculum? My main point was that any goof who has read an introduction ot logic book can make a "syllogism." Look, Islam is true:

1) Either nothing exists or Allah exists.

2) Something exists.

3) Therefore Allah exists.

(If you're adept at creating syllogisms, you'll see that you can make one concluding that I'm a "goof! :) )

See, anyone can knock out "syllogisms." But I'm hardly bothered by that fact, so I wonder why you mentioned it. The only thing I can think is that you were trying to fallaciously support your assertions. Give your argument that extra "umph" it was so sorely lacking. :)

Anyway, God didn't have to make death his punishment. He could have sent them immediately to hell. Thus it's not necessary "to enforce His justice and glorify Himself." Moreover, how about when a saint dies? He doesn't need to "enforce his justice" on them. That's been done in Christ. So, your argument is neither necessary or sufficient.

Jesus weeps when Lazarus dies. He doesn't revel in "divine justice on display." Why did he weep? Why mourn? Why did Mary weep? It would seem that it was because Lazarus was dead. In and of itself this was bad. It was at death that they weeped. It needs no other fact in terms of which it is evil. Is is evil. Death.

Paul speaks directly to death itself. Paul says that death stings. He says that death is an enemy. James seems to imply that the final evil result of sin is death. "Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death." He ends there. No need to go on. Death is evil and bad, because it's death. In heaven there "will be no more death." Why? One reason is that death itself is bad, evil, acursed.


The death of an evil person is evil. That doesn't mean it is immoral or that it can't also be a punishment. You can add the fallacy of false dichotomy to your violations., as well as ignoratio elenchi.

Man wasn't made to die... Even heinous men. Man's cheif end is to glorify God and enjoy him forever. Dying, in and of itself, negates this foreverness. Therefore, it is inherently evil.

Death itself is a break in our image bearing nature. We image the living God. True and final death is an end, not a means to an end. This is why God doesn't annhiliate anyone. He even lets "henious" live forever. They still image God, even in hell. They are man and so by nature image the living God. For him to allow them to remain dead mars his image!

Not only that, but things can be both intrinsicly and instrumentally evil (or good). Pain is intrinsically evil, but a sharp pain could cause me to jerk my hand and hit a tack, causing another pain. The first was an instrinsic evil, but also acted as an instrumental evil.

Or, something can be intrinsically evil and instrumentally good - harm is an instrinsic evil. Joseph's brothers intended harm, God used it for good. Indeed, if you grant that there are intrinsic evils, then we can see that they are also instrumental for goods because "In ALL things, God is working them out for good." Therefore, just to point to any instrumental purpose for evil does not logicaly imply that it is also not intrinsically evil. Thus none of your arguments even lead to your conclusion - which goes beyond your premises, therefore.

Part of the creation mandate was to multiply goodness. Bring forth life. Adam names his wife "Eve," that is, life! Is life intrinsically good? Why is death not intrinsically evil?
 
Last edited:
Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Death as a person is evil. I am not sure that the judgment of death is nor the actual process of death? And it appears there is a difference between the person of death and death the process according to this passage. Death kills with death.

Sounds like Paul knows absolutely without a doubt that death is evil.
 
1 Cor 15:21

The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

If it is an enemy of Christ, I would tend to say it is evil. If (and I know thats dangerous to say) Adam had not sinned, he would have never died physically.
 
Sounds like Paul knows absolutely without a doubt that death is evil.

I don't know many thing "absolutely without a doubt." But I did give arguments for my position rather than smarmy comments.

Also, I don't think the debate is about whether it death is evil, it's whether death is intrinsically evil. There's a difference. You could note that by checking the title of this thread.

(Btw, the word "evil" isn't in the text you cited. If your "argument" works, a fortiori mine?)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top