Is Downloading Movies/mp3's Sin?
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I would say yes, and I have stressed this to other Christian friends. I'm typing on my mobile, so I'll keep this short.
Piracy is considered theft almost everywhere in the West. Theft is a sin. If you don't agree that piracy is theft, the Bible tells us to obey the laws placed on us by our governments. Piracy is against the law.
I don't know the Bible verses off-hand that I loosely referenced, but I'm sure another brother or sister does. If not, I'll find them tomorrow.
Piracy is considered theft almost everywhere in the West. Theft is a sin. If you don't agree that piracy is theft, the Bible tells us to obey the laws placed on us by our governments. Piracy is against the law.
I don't know the Bible verses off-hand that I loosely referenced, but I'm sure another brother or sister does. If not, I'll find them tomorrow.
toddpedlar
Iron Dramatist
If it is illegal to do so, then you are bound by Romans 13 to obey the government and not do it. Obviously if you are downloading things you've paid for, then that's no problem - and/or if they are offered for free by the publishing house or artist (as in self-produced things) then that too is fine. But if you're talking about downloading mp3's from file sharing sites, that is theft, which is a direct violation of the 8th commandment.
If the movie or mp3s are downloaded legally--like from iTunes, Amazon, etc., then of course it is okay. But if you are not paying for them (and they are not actually a free download) then it is stealing plain and simple, which is obviously a sin.
I struggled with this when I first got to college because everyone else did it and it was so easy to do. At first I didn't realize I was doing anything wrong, but even once I did, I still didn't want to stop doing it. I used the usual excuses of, "They charge too much", "Its not that good", "I'm only watching it once", "Its like borrowing from a friend", etc. However, the Lord eventually convicted me that I was just using these excuses to steal. Once I came under that conviction, the mp3s, movies, software, etc. was removed from my computer and I finally had a clear conscience. And in the end, I didn't miss it anyway!
I struggled with this when I first got to college because everyone else did it and it was so easy to do. At first I didn't realize I was doing anything wrong, but even once I did, I still didn't want to stop doing it. I used the usual excuses of, "They charge too much", "Its not that good", "I'm only watching it once", "Its like borrowing from a friend", etc. However, the Lord eventually convicted me that I was just using these excuses to steal. Once I came under that conviction, the mp3s, movies, software, etc. was removed from my computer and I finally had a clear conscience. And in the end, I didn't miss it anyway!
The question didn't say "illegally downloading," but I'll assume that's what you meant. I believe it is wrong, but the majority of people disagree with me - although maybe not on the PB, who knows.
That said, I'll add that it's kind of a silly law. The record companies profit more from the increased music attention, which results in bigger concert sales - their primary source of income. But silly or not, it's still illegal. They have the right to sell their recordings and not have them copied and distributed free, if that's what they want to do. They went to the trouble and paid the money to produce the recording.
Edit: I misspoke. I should have said it's a silly policy, not law. The law should stay the same and businesses might do well to change their policies.
That said, I'll add that it's kind of a silly law. The record companies profit more from the increased music attention, which results in bigger concert sales - their primary source of income. But silly or not, it's still illegal. They have the right to sell their recordings and not have them copied and distributed free, if that's what they want to do. They went to the trouble and paid the money to produce the recording.
Edit: I misspoke. I should have said it's a silly policy, not law. The law should stay the same and businesses might do well to change their policies.
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Skyler
Puritan Board Graduate
That's interesting. I was just thinking about making a post on illegally copying mp3s/videos, and then I log into the PB and it's the top thread. 
Legally? Yes, downloading videos/mp3s (without paying for them) is technically illegal. I would argue that watching streaming videos is no different in the end than borrowing them from a public library, but the law is still the law, and we are exhorted to obey especially the unjust laws.
Legally? Yes, downloading videos/mp3s (without paying for them) is technically illegal. I would argue that watching streaming videos is no different in the end than borrowing them from a public library, but the law is still the law, and we are exhorted to obey especially the unjust laws.
Webservant
Puritan Board Sophomore
Stealing is a sin. iTunes isn't terribly expensive. Musicians have to eat, too!
toddpedlar
Iron Dramatist
That's interesting. I was just thinking about making a post on illegally copying mp3s/videos, and then I log into the PB and it's the top thread.
Legally? Yes, downloading videos/mp3s (without paying for them) is technically illegal. I would argue that watching streaming videos is no different in the end than borrowing them from a public library, but the law is still the law, and we are exhorted to obey especially the unjust laws.
Downloading pirated videos is NOT anything close to the same thing as borrowing them from the public library. The public library has specific authorization to share what they purchase. Pirates do not. I would hope we recognize the difference, because it's an important one.
Kim G
Puritan Board Junior
Would you walk into an entertainment store, take a physical DVD or CD from the shelves, and walk out without paying? Even if the store manager said, "You can take it without paying," it still wouldn't make it right because you would be defrauding the company and artist who produced the DVD or CD.
Just because stealing electronically is easier to do and harder to get caught doesn't make it okay. Remember the eighth commandment!
When I went to college (Christian college, no less), everyone was doing it. I was sent many mp3 files that I didn't know were illegal downloads. When I found out, I deleted them all. It wasn't easy because I liked many of them, but I didn't obtain them legally.
Just because stealing electronically is easier to do and harder to get caught doesn't make it okay. Remember the eighth commandment!
When I went to college (Christian college, no less), everyone was doing it. I was sent many mp3 files that I didn't know were illegal downloads. When I found out, I deleted them all. It wasn't easy because I liked many of them, but I didn't obtain them legally.
ericfromcowtown
Puritan Board Sophomore
We'll download television shows that we missed via bit torrent. If we had a Tivo / PVR we'd do the same thing and similarly skip the commercials. I can justify this, but we don't download movies or music that we'd otherwise rent from the video store or purchase online. I had a ton of pirated .mp3 at one time that I deleted when I came to the place where I recognized this as theft.
boschertjd18
Puritan Board Freshman
What happens if you rewarded the artist(s) years ago and purchased the music on an older media type, say record or tape. Let's assume the media is very worn and so transferring to the PC yields a crappy product. Does that make it any more or less acceptable to download without paying (again)?
PresbyDane
Puritanboard Doctor
Yes it is sin if you do not pay for them, it is the same as stealing.
Quickened
Puritan Board Senior
I used to do this way back when.
My theory was that i was borrowing music that i normally would borrow from a friend. I tend to forget i have people's CD's so this was a great way. I wouldnt have to worry about returning it to someone and could just delete it from the HD when done.
What if i tape it off the radio? Does that fall under the same category? Or VHS recording a movie off of TV? The format has changed. Not that i do anymore but i see no difference between the two.
With the advent of DVR the line is obscured. Do i buy an overpriced set of a TV show that will end up collecting dust after 1 or 2 viewings? Do i wait for each episode and DVR those or Do i download them directly from a bit torrent site? I already pay for cable so i would most likely just DVR them. But what difference is there if i already have the cable (and station it is on) + DVR box over using a torrent site? To me it just seems that one method is more convenient then the other.
I would never buy something blind. I would always view or listen to it first otherwise i could possibly buy something thats not worth it. So i may wait for radio play or borrow it from a friend.
If i am borrowing it for a time physically what is the difference If i am borrowing it from that same friend digitally? That way he doesnt lose his copy, I dont lose it or damage it accidentally.
Not that i really do anymore. I found many years ago that i would listen to something once and that was it. I find the radio to be more convenient as i dont have to queue anything up and they can worry about variety instead of me making a playlist.
My theory was that i was borrowing music that i normally would borrow from a friend. I tend to forget i have people's CD's so this was a great way. I wouldnt have to worry about returning it to someone and could just delete it from the HD when done.
What if i tape it off the radio? Does that fall under the same category? Or VHS recording a movie off of TV? The format has changed. Not that i do anymore but i see no difference between the two.
With the advent of DVR the line is obscured. Do i buy an overpriced set of a TV show that will end up collecting dust after 1 or 2 viewings? Do i wait for each episode and DVR those or Do i download them directly from a bit torrent site? I already pay for cable so i would most likely just DVR them. But what difference is there if i already have the cable (and station it is on) + DVR box over using a torrent site? To me it just seems that one method is more convenient then the other.
I would never buy something blind. I would always view or listen to it first otherwise i could possibly buy something thats not worth it. So i may wait for radio play or borrow it from a friend.
If i am borrowing it for a time physically what is the difference If i am borrowing it from that same friend digitally? That way he doesnt lose his copy, I dont lose it or damage it accidentally.
Not that i really do anymore. I found many years ago that i would listen to something once and that was it. I find the radio to be more convenient as i dont have to queue anything up and they can worry about variety instead of me making a playlist.
Zenas
Snow Miser
If you walk into a bookstore and take a book from the shelf that costs $13.99 and walk out without paying it, it's theft.
If you buy a book from a man who says that he stole the book, it's theft.
If you take the book from a man who says he stole the book, it's theft.
If you download the book without paying for it, to the person who rightfully has the rights to distribute it, it's theft.
If you buy a book from a man who says that he stole the book, it's theft.
If you take the book from a man who says he stole the book, it's theft.
If you download the book without paying for it, to the person who rightfully has the rights to distribute it, it's theft.
I have to say yes BUT I do go through loopholes sometimes. For example its not illegal to WATCH an uploaded illegally movie online but its illegal to opload or download it in Canada. So thats what I do. Its probably a bit questionable but I break no laws. I have only downloaded a a couple of songs illegally but only songs that I have already bought but lost via harddrive crash, etc... I do think its time the laws get updated for the 21st century when it comes to copyright and its time that corporations start putting all their stuff online for free access to watch (they can still add even more ad space... think comedy central). The longer things stay the same the more money they loose.
Regardless of what's more profitable for them in the long run, if you invest capital and labor into producing a product that there's a demand for, then you have a right to charge for your product if you desire. It isn't the copyright laws that need changing, it's the businesses' policies. Their rights should stay the same, but they should update their policies if you are indeed correct about profitability.
Well depends on what product of course, if it is something necessary for life and the well being of humans than I do support government regulation of prices (though not complete control). But over all I do agree with you.
But that's stealing. They invested their own property (capital and the cost of labor) into making it, and they own it. They don't have to sell it at all if they don't want to. But if they do sell it, they may charge what they see fit - whether it be medicine or origami giraffes.
Berean
Puritanboard Commissioner
You might find this interestng. I stopped after reading this thread.
http://www.puritanboard.com/f25/software-piracy-2304/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f25/software-piracy-2304/
That a political debate. I would say that apart of living in a society and under a government means that there is an moral obligation to sell things as cheap as possible and no profit when lives are at risk. A policeman off the clock is still required to act in a certain manner all the time even if he is not paid. And I would make the point that those who work in the healthcare industry have the same obligation to work for the motive of saving lives above all. Yes there may be profit but when profit becomes the sole factor and you become all Ann raynd you will cut corners all the time in order to get more money even if lives are cost needessly (i.e. Vioox- many lives were saved because of it except that those who had heart conditions died while taking it. the corporation did a mental cost benefit analysis and took the risk about lying about all the side effects in order to sell more of a decent drug... this is why)
But you cannot compare tv shows with medicine ethically. That is just ethically irresponsible in my judgment. Also not all countries have the same laws when it comes to these things so that is another consideration...
Grillsy
Puritan Board Junior
Yes, unless it is public domain then you're okay. Which is great for you in the UK since the laws determining what and when it goes into PD are less strict.
Some items in the public domain are still sold commercially as well. These are usually your bargain books or $1 dollar DVDs. Not sure what your cheap DVDs sell for in Scotland.
I can elaborate more if necessary.
Some items in the public domain are still sold commercially as well. These are usually your bargain books or $1 dollar DVDs. Not sure what your cheap DVDs sell for in Scotland.
I can elaborate more if necessary.
also is making somebody a mixed cd stealing because you are just taking stuff you bought and giving it to another?
Grillsy
Puritan Board Junior
If it is an MP3 you have legally downloaded then most likely it is not illegal just to make the one copy and give away. So long as you are not selling them.
If you are ripping them from a CD and them making copies then there are some issues. But the one copy mixed CD should be fine.
McPatrickClan
Puritan Board Freshman
I think that generally, stealing (which is what a lot of the downloading is online) is illegal, of course. However, I think this is a bit of a gray area... to some degree. I guess I can't really come up with an example but just see a lot of abuse of the law by the people in power and don't like it- so forget what I said! It's wrong!
Here comes the grey question: What about if you make an mp3 cd with several albums on it and the track lists are all mixed up and that is the gift cd. Is that illegal? If so then why isn't just a normal mixed cd illegal?
toddpedlar
Iron Dramatist
Why is ONE okay, but more than one not?
In any case - one or more than one - this is not legal to do.
Grillsy
Puritan Board Junior
The Audio Home Recording Act allows you to legally make copies for yourself and the language also hints that giving a copy to a friend is fine. However that right does not extend to CD burners embedded in your pc. You can legally make on backup copy of a purchased audio cd using any technology.
You can however make a copy for yourself from mp3s, so long as they are legally downloaded. If you give away that one copy i'm not sure if it would be illegal or not. I'll check the rules at work and see just what they are.
-----Added 12/5/2009 at 03:14:22 EST-----
Because you can legally make one backup copy of the music you have purchased.
In any case the legal case in grey because recording and rights laws are far behind the technology used to record the media.
For individuals doing this it is increasingly difficult to follow all of the rules. I have it a little simpler in the radio business, we just pay for the rights.
gene_mingo
Puritan Board Junior
While the actual laws concerning copyright are important in this discussion, shouldn't we also consider the artist who made the music in the first place? If he/she made the music/movie with the intent to sell it, then wouldn't it be considered stealing if they are not getting paid when you acquire their material?
I don't think that the law in any particular country can take away the moral obligation to follow a commandment.
I don't think that the law in any particular country can take away the moral obligation to follow a commandment.
Grillsy
Puritan Board Junior
You're right. But my last few answers were over the question of music legally purchased.
I'm not sure if you commenting on that or the OP.
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