Is Downloading Movies/mp3's Sin?

[jogri17]

While the actual laws concerning copyright are important in this discussion, shouldn't we also consider the artist who made the music in the first place? If he/she made the music/movie with the intent to sell it, then wouldn't it be considered stealing if they are not getting paid when you acquire their material?

I don't think that the law in any particular country can take away the moral obligation to follow a commandment.

the intention of the author while is nice to talk about really is not that important to the entire conversation. The writer or the band or the artist signs with a label and it is the corporation that releases it not the individual most of the time. The artist gets a piece of the profits of course but it is the company that makes most money off it. Once an artist signs a contract with X, they loose must of that right. Thats the reason why record companies exist. Artists give up X in order to get them to pay to produce a reccord, and do publicity, and get gigs and set up concerts.

 

[wmc1982]

mininova shut down last week anyway.

 

[toddpedlar]

If it is an MP3 you have legally downloaded then most likely it is not illegal just to make the one copy and give away. So long as you are not selling them.

If you are ripping them from a CD and them making copies then there are some issues. But the one copy mixed CD should be fine.

Here comes the grey question: What about if you make an mp3 cd with several albums on it and the track lists are all mixed up and that is the gift cd. Is that illegal? If so then why isn't just a normal mixed cd illegal?

The Audio Home Recording Act allows you to legally make copies for yourself and the language also hints that giving a copy to a friend is fine. However that right does not extend to CD burners embedded in your pc. You can legally make on backup copy of a purchased audio cd using any technology.

You can however make a copy for yourself from mp3s, so long as they are legally downloaded. If you give away that one copy i'm not sure if it would be illegal or not. I'll check the rules at work and see just what they are.

-----Added 12/5/2009 at 03:14:22 EST-----

If it is an MP3 you have legally downloaded then most likely it is not illegal just to make the one copy and give away. So long as you are not selling them.

If you are ripping them from a CD and them making copies then there are some issues. But the one copy mixed CD should be fine.

Why is ONE okay, but more than one not?

In any case - one or more than one - this is not legal to do.

Because you can legally make one backup copy of the music you have purchased.

In any case the legal case in grey because recording and rights laws are far behind the technology used to record the media.

For individuals doing this it is increasingly difficult to follow all of the rules. I have it a little simpler in the radio business, we just pay for the rights.

Why do you suppose it's rightly called a "backup copy"? It is NOT so that you can distribute it to others.

 

[Peairtach]

Stealing is a sin. iTunes isn't terribly expensive. Musicians have to eat, too!

I used to download quite a bit of music for free (illegally). Two or three years ago I deleted the mp3's and threw out the CDs produced in this way.

I now only download legally. It's stealing from lots of different people along with the musicians.

I prayed that God would forgive me for this in Christ, and He has.

 

[Grillsy]

Here comes the grey question: What about if you make an mp3 cd with several albums on it and the track lists are all mixed up and that is the gift cd. Is that illegal? If so then why isn't just a normal mixed cd illegal?

The Audio Home Recording Act allows you to legally make copies for yourself and the language also hints that giving a copy to a friend is fine. However that right does not extend to CD burners embedded in your pc. You can legally make on backup copy of a purchased audio cd using any technology.

You can however make a copy for yourself from mp3s, so long as they are legally downloaded. If you give away that one copy i'm not sure if it would be illegal or not. I'll check the rules at work and see just what they are.

-----Added 12/5/2009 at 03:14:22 EST-----

Why is ONE okay, but more than one not?

In any case - one or more than one - this is not legal to do.

Because you can legally make one backup copy of the music you have purchased.

In any case the legal case in grey because recording and rights laws are far behind the technology used to record the media.

For individuals doing this it is increasingly difficult to follow all of the rules. I have it a little simpler in the radio business, we just pay for the rights.

Why do you suppose it's rightly called a "backup copy"? It is NOT so that you can distribute it to others.

My bad. I could have mistyped something or maybe I was unclear. I was trying to express the legality of the actual making of the CD not the giving of it to a friend.

 

[jogri17]

so what if you use an external dvd burner then is it legal?

 

[Peairtach]

There's something called reasonable use in US law on making copies of copyright material you have paid for, which may be a sensible provision for "reasonable" limited copying.

I don't know if this is true of English, Scots or EU law.


This subject is technically for the "God's Law" section, by the way.

Here's John Frame's article on this. I don't remember the details of what he says, not having read it in a while:-

The Other Shoe: or, Copyright and the Reasonable Use of Technology

 

[gene_mingo]

The Audio Home Recording Act allows you to legally make copies for yourself and the language also hints that giving a copy to a friend is fine. However that right does not extend to CD burners embedded in your pc. You can legally make on backup copy of a purchased audio cd using any technology.

You can however make a copy for yourself from mp3s, so long as they are legally downloaded. If you give away that one copy i'm not sure if it would be illegal or not. I'll check the rules at work and see just what they are.

-----Added 12/5/2009 at 03:14:22 EST-----



Because you can legally make one backup copy of the music you have purchased.

In any case the legal case in grey because recording and rights laws are far behind the technology used to record the media.

For individuals doing this it is increasingly difficult to follow all of the rules. I have it a little simpler in the radio business, we just pay for the rights.

Why do you suppose it's rightly called a "backup copy"? It is NOT so that you can distribute it to others.

My bad. I could have mistyped something or maybe I was unclear. I was trying to express the legality of the actual making of the CD not the giving of it to a friend.

This is from the Terms of Use at Amazon for MP3:

2. Digital Content

2.1 Rights Granted. Upon your payment of our fees for Digital Content, we grant you a non-exclusive, non-transferable right to use the Digital Content for your personal, non-commercial, entertainment use, subject to and in accordance with the Terms of Use. You may copy, store, transfer and burn the Digital Content only for your personal, non-commercial, entertainment use, subject to and in accordance with the Terms of Use.

2.2 Restrictions. You represent, warrant and agree that you will use the Service only for your personal, non-commercial, entertainment use and not for any redistribution of the Digital Content or other use restricted in this Section 2.2. You agree not to infringe the rights of the Digital Content's copyright owners and to comply with all applicable laws in your use of the Digital Content. Except as set forth in Section 2.1 above, you agree that you will not redistribute, transmit, assign, sell, broadcast, rent, share, lend, modify, adapt, edit, license or otherwise transfer or use the Digital Content. You are not granted any synchronization, public performance, promotional use, commercial sale, resale, reproduction or distribution rights for the Digital Content. You acknowledge that the Digital Content embodies the intellectual property of a third party and is protected by law.

 

[Grillsy]

Why do you suppose it's rightly called a "backup copy"? It is NOT so that you can distribute it to others.

My bad. I could have mistyped something or maybe I was unclear. I was trying to express the legality of the actual making of the CD not the giving of it to a friend.

This is from the Terms of Use at Amazon for MP3:

2. Digital Content

2.1 Rights Granted. Upon your payment of our fees for Digital Content, we grant you a non-exclusive, non-transferable right to use the Digital Content for your personal, non-commercial, entertainment use, subject to and in accordance with the Terms of Use. You may copy, store, transfer and burn the Digital Content only for your personal, non-commercial, entertainment use, subject to and in accordance with the Terms of Use.

2.2 Restrictions. You represent, warrant and agree that you will use the Service only for your personal, non-commercial, entertainment use and not for any redistribution of the Digital Content or other use restricted in this Section 2.2. You agree not to infringe the rights of the Digital Content's copyright owners and to comply with all applicable laws in your use of the Digital Content. Except as set forth in Section 2.1 above, you agree that you will not redistribute, transmit, assign, sell, broadcast, rent, share, lend, modify, adapt, edit, license or otherwise transfer or use the Digital Content. You are not granted any synchronization, public performance, promotional use, commercial sale, resale, reproduction or distribution rights for the Digital Content. You acknowledge that the Digital Content embodies the intellectual property of a third party and is protected by law.

Well, that answers things for those using Amazon's digital music service. Thanks Gene

 

[gene_mingo]

And Itunes:

Usage Rules

(i) Your use of the Products is conditioned upon your prior acceptance of the terms of this Agreement.

(ii) You shall be authorized to use the Products only for personal, noncommercial use.

(iii) You shall be authorized to use the Products on five Apple-authorized devices at any time, except in the case of Movie Rentals, as described below.

(iv) You shall be able to store Products from up to five different Accounts on certain devices, such as an iPod or iPhone, and Apple TV at a time; provided that each iPhone may sync ring tone Products with only a single Apple-authorized device at a time, and that syncing an iPhone with another Apple-authorized device will cause any ring tone Products stored on such iPhone to be erased and, if you so choose, to be replaced with any ring tone Products stored on such other Apple-authorized device. Additional restrictions apply to Movies Rentals, as described below.

(v) You shall be authorized to burn an audio playlist up to seven times.

(vi) You shall not be entitled to burn video Products or ring tone Products.

(vii) You shall be entitled to export, burn (if applicable) or copy (if applicable) Products solely for personal, noncommercial use.

 

[Webservant]

Stealing is a sin. iTunes isn't terribly expensive. Musicians have to eat, too!

I used to download quite a bit of music for free (illegally). Two or three years ago I deleted the mp3's and threw out the CDs produced in this way.

I now only download legally. It's stealing from lots of different people along with the musicians.

I prayed that God would forgive me for this in Christ, and He has.

Brother, same here. I had less of an excuse than most, since I was a musician and I should have known better.

 

[JM]

P2P downloading is legal in Canada, isn't it?

Canada deems P2P downloading legal - CNET News
File sharing in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2005: BMG Canada Inc. v. John Doe - Appeal

In 2005, the controversial ruling of Justice Konrad von Finckenstein, making file uploading on peer-to-peer systems legal, was set aside by the Federal Court of Appeal. The Court of Appeal held that although the original case should be dismissed due to lack of evidence linking the unnamed defendants to the alleged copyright infringements, the question of the legality of peer-to-peer file sharing must be decided in a future case.​

Canadian Police Tolerates Piracy For Personal Use | TorrentFreak

File sharing improves sales?

http://torrentfreak.com/piracy-boosts-cd-sales-071103/

 

[Dao]

. . For example its not illegal to WATCH an uploaded illegally movie online but its illegal to upload or download it in Canada. . . . (clipped)

Is that a fact? I'm relieved to hear that.

 

[Skyler]

That's interesting. I was just thinking about making a post on illegally copying mp3s/videos, and then I log into the PB and it's the top thread.

Legally? Yes, downloading videos/mp3s (without paying for them) is technically illegal. I would argue that watching streaming videos is no different in the end than borrowing them from a public library, but the law is still the law, and we are exhorted to obey especially the unjust laws.

Downloading pirated videos is NOT anything close to the same thing as borrowing them from the public library. The public library has specific authorization to share what they purchase. Pirates do not. I would hope we recognize the difference, because it's an important one.

I'm saying from the artist's perspective, he/she gets no more compensation from someone borrowing the movie from the library than from watching it online. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think libraries have to pay extra to lend them out to patrons, do they?

I'm not debating that it's illegal (though I have heard, as jogri17 mentioned, that is legal to watch online videos--I'd need an expert's opinion on that), but whether it should be illegal.

Oh, one other thing--if you want to listen to music that you don't own online, check out Pandora Radio - Listen to Free Internet Radio, Find New Music. It's an internet radio service that allows you to create your own stations of the kind of music you like to listen to for free. There are some restrictions, but I think it's worth it.

 

[TheDow]

Pandora is nice, especially in that they index each song using the characteristics of that song, which means you can hear a lot of the type of music you like, but still hear a great many new artists.

I also used to copy DVD's, and download music illegally. Pared my "collection" down when it really became apparent to me that it was sin.

I am, however, extremely frustrated with the laws concerning copyright, especially with regards to backups. At one point, the prevailing opinion was that you could make a backup, as long as you didn't circumvent so-called copy-protection to do so. When it comes to making backups of DVD's so your child doesn't destroy your originals, that interpretation of the law makes you a multiple offender, just for being cautious. Very frustrating.

I now only download through Amazon, and have ripped all my CD's for listening on the go.

 

[David]

I would say yes, and I have stressed this to other Christian friends. I'm typing on my mobile, so I'll keep this short.

Piracy is considered theft almost everywhere in the West. Theft is a sin. If you don't agree that piracy is theft, the Bible tells us to obey the laws placed on us by our governments. Piracy is against the law.

I don't know the Bible verses off-hand that I loosely referenced, but I'm sure another brother or sister does. If not, I'll find them tomorrow.

Here's the open letter I wrote to Christian friends a couple of months ago, which includes the verses I used.

It has been brought to my attention that a number of fellow Christians are either actively pirating movies, music and computer software, or have "stopped", yet haven't actually deleted what they already pirated.

The Bible has the following to say regarding theft:

Exodus 20:15
15 Thou shalt not steal.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Ephesians 4:28
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.


God clearly condemns theft, and except by His grace, thieves will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Hence, those under God's grace are told to steal no more in Ephesians 4:28. However, there are Christians who would argue that piracy is not theft. For them I have some more verses:

Romans 13:1-7
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

1 Peter 2:13-14
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.


Even if piracy is not theft, we are still clearly told to obey the laws of the land. Last time I checked, it is against Australian law to engage in piracy. I therefore encourage fellow Christians to not only cease pirating, but also uninstall, delete or throw out any pirated material they currently possess and repent to God.

 

[Tim]

What about YouTube? People take their music recordings and place it in the form of a movie, perhaps with the album cover as the picture that is showing during playing. If you have internet 24/7, you can get almost any popular song, whenever you like.

I know that we on the PB often put links to YouTube songs, and I never knew what to think about this. I know that YouTube is streaming, rather than downloading, but that can be circumvented with various downloaders and converters.

I like YouTube, but I would change my habits to honor God.

 

[LeeJUk]

Youtube as long as it advertises the Itunes link for the song @ the Bottom (if it's an official music track / music video) then it's all legally fine for youtube, the poster and the listener.