Is Reformed Evangelicalism a Place for the Traumatized, by Paul Maxwell
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Perhaps most traditions believe others do worse at spiritual pride. You can probably guess why...
More seriously, I don't doubt that being proud of being right when you are in fact wrong is something of a disadvantage. I think Wesley exhibited more pride than Whitefield, and part of that is that I side with Whitefield on their areas of disagreement.
Yet, I am Reformed (even if just barely) and I've always thought that the Reformed (my own in-group) have been worse in this area of spiritual pride than Arminians.
Maybe I am just a mole amongst you's all, like the Manchurian Candidate! The Genevan Candidate!
It seems to me that a certain amount of pride comes with the fact of being a fallen human being with beliefs. It’s like when somebody told me one time, “You Calvinists always think you’re so right!” My response: “What, and you don’t think you are? It’s the very nature of belief to believe what you believe is right and the opposite is wrong. That’s literally what it means to believe something to be true.” Perhaps pride in this sinful flesh is similar.
A.Joseph
Puritan Board Senior
Cage stage and immaturity go hand in hand.... where the head comes before the heart...I hate to keep pointing to the YRR as a case study....
and I think even the debate driven ministries of a James White can leave many feeling a bit cold. My experience with reformed elders and ministers have been humbling.... These men who have to guide individuals and families through the brokenness of life lack no shortage of compassion and tenderness.... the pastoral care of the reformed minister of the word is truly where it’s at....
and I think even the debate driven ministries of a James White can leave many feeling a bit cold. My experience with reformed elders and ministers have been humbling.... These men who have to guide individuals and families through the brokenness of life lack no shortage of compassion and tenderness.... the pastoral care of the reformed minister of the word is truly where it’s at....
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Goodcheer68
Puritan Board Sophomore
One name...Roger Olson. Pride hits both sides!
Just for clarification, Dr. White is a Reformed elder/pastor who has many times in the past most certainly sat at the bedsides of the dying, as well as many other situations where compassion and tenderness are required. Sure, he has a debating career, but he is also an elder/pastor, and quite an experienced one.
A.Joseph
Puritan Board Senior
No doubt...the charitable, loving side, most don’t get to see..... I think the world is a case study for the T of Tulip, which provides a unique place for the reformed apologist to lovingly and definitively make the case for reformed theology and biblical truth.... we shouldn’t be perceived as radical or on the fringes of faith....we don’t always have to lead from the deep end, although it should be part of the whole comprehensive presentation of biblical faith. We don’t need to carry a sledgehammer however.... but I do believe it’s ultimately a matter of life and death
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Perhaps you're prone to think that the grass is always greener? Some personalities seem inclined to notice and object to problems "out there" whereas others are more inclined to be irritated at problems "in-here". Both run into the danger of self-congratulation for their superior insight.
Alan D. Strange
Puritan Board Senior
Trevor:
If you've every read anything that I've written on this Board, you know that I am not only ready to criticize us (the Reformed, Calvinists, and the like), but believe that we should do so first, thoroughly, honestly, and regularly.
When it comes to pride, we have a great deal of which to repent. Absolutely. Without question.
Calvinistic spiritual pride is utterly at odds, of course, with what we profess. Calvinists, more than anyone, should understand that we have nothing but what we've been given. But, sadly, we often act contrary to what we profess.
But worse spiritual pride than Arminians? Calvinistic spiritual pride is at odds with its own principles, but Arminians deny total inability and the glorious truth of the utterly gracious character of salvation. Calvinism exalts God and abases man. Arminianism does the opposite. Many Arminians may be humble in spite of their theology (and Calvinists proud in spite of theirs), but such humility is accidental for the Arminian and not essential: to the degree that the Arminian is consistently so, he is necessarily proud.
Arminianism, and Arminians, do not believe that they need God as much as they do. While pride is foreign to Calvinism in theory (though not in practice, since we all fall short of this glorious Reformed theology), it is not to Arminianism. Pride is the very heart of Pelagianism, including in all its weaker forms, of which Arminianism is one.
Peace,
Alan
Great point.
Pride is the very heart of Pelagianism, including in all its weaker forms, of which Arminianism is one.
Very good point.
Solparvus
Puritan Board Senior
I've been an arrogant Calvinist and arrogant Arminian.
Arrogant Dispensational and arrogant Reformed.
Arrogant Baptist and arrogant Paedobaptist.
Arrogant Charismatic and arrogant cessationist.
Arrogant before/during/after writing this post.
I've been cold and hard at some point or another in all these camps. Though, in line with your words, my own theological views I hold now all shout out how humble I ought to be, and how thoroughly dependent on Christ I ought to be, and cause me to see continually that I am not where I should be, and only by grace I am what I am. I live so little according to the light that I do have, and I don't have the tears that should accompany my own confession. Let all the blame be at the feet of the sinner himself.
Paul Washer had said, "I've seen many Arminians live beyond their theology, but I've never seen a Calvinist live up to his."
It says the domain expired. So much the better.
Pilgrim
Puritanboard Commissioner
My apologies if this comment is out of line, etc. But Mr. Maxwell strikes me as the sort of man who can seem to have a point at first, but at the same time something seems to be a bit off with what he is saying and or how he is saying it. I'm thinking about a recent video about Christian publishers.
As for the kind of attitude he describes, you can probably find it at almost any seminary, or church, especially if they have a certain distinctive that they are known for. So if you go looking for it at TMS, WSCAL, GPTS, SBTS, Concordia, and several others, I'm quite sure you'll find it. It is easier to spot at some places than others, but no group has a monopoly on pride and smugness. And lest you (or he) think that cutting things too fine is the root problem and loosening up is the solution, you'll find it at more loosey goosey places as well: "I thank God I'm not like those TRs or dispensationalists or dumb dumb Baptist legalists" or whatever. I've lost count in the number of times I've had a pastor who thought I was on his "side" make disparaging comments about some teaching or group and in the process do little more than reveal his own ignorance and pride.
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As for the kind of attitude he describes, you can probably find it at almost any seminary, or church, especially if they have a certain distinctive that they are known for. So if you go looking for it at TMS, WSCAL, GPTS, SBTS, Concordia, and several others, I'm quite sure you'll find it. It is easier to spot at some places than others, but no group has a monopoly on pride and smugness. And lest you (or he) think that cutting things too fine is the root problem and loosening up is the solution, you'll find it at more loosey goosey places as well: "I thank God I'm not like those TRs or dispensationalists or dumb dumb Baptist legalists" or whatever. I've lost count in the number of times I've had a pastor who thought I was on his "side" make disparaging comments about some teaching or group and in the process do little more than reveal his own ignorance and pride.
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That at least is something good to be said about him!Well, he is baptist...
Edward
Puritanboard Commissioner
The label of "Frozen Chosen" was hard earned. And we must strive to maintain it. I do tend to be a bit warmer. Expect a slight nod and a good morning when I greet you at the door of the church.
I'm just grateful to be spared the overly-exuberant church greeters at our kind of churches.
We all have the tendency to display spiritual pride, but have seen it most evidenced in churches that would be promoting either the we are the true church only mentality, such as the Sda. Church of Rome, and some Independent Baptists churches. Also seen and found in those holding to them having some type of higher understanding about God or the scriptures, as in Word of faith, health and Wealth churches.
Solparvus
Puritan Board Senior
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