Is the bodily resurrection of humans important?

[pgwolv]

The Reformed Church in the United States (the old German Reformed Church) did an outstanding job of dealing with the question of creamation and how bodies should be disposed of in a synod report they released some years ago. Here is a link:

http://www.rescuetheperishing.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/RCUS-Synod-Study-Report-on-Cremation-with-updated-recommendations-adopted-by-the-273rd-Synod.pdf

Thank you Zach, that was a good position paper. It has definitely changed my thinking. Some highlights to me:

1. 1 Cor 6:19b-20: "You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."
   
   
2. "Our Lord Himself, too, though He was to rise again the third day, applauds, and commends to our applause, the good work of the religious woman who poured precious ointment over His limbs, and did it against His burial. And the Gospel speaks with commendation of those who were careful to take down His body from the cross, and wrap it lovingly in costly cerements, and see to its burial. These instances certainly do not prove that corpses have any feeling; but they show that God’s providence extends even to the bodies of the dead, and that such pious offices are pleasing to Him, as cherishing faith in the resurrection." Augustine, "The City of God", Book I, Chapter 13
   
   
3. "For to what end was the rite of burial, as we have already seen, unless to teach that new life was prepared for the bodies thus deposited?" John Calvin, "Institutes", Vol. III, Chapter 25, p. 622
   
   
4. Destroying the body by burning is wholly inconsistent with the illustration of hope set forth in Christian burial. Note that it is the depiction of hope, not hope itself, that is obscured in cremation. (Emphasis in the original)
   
   
5. Laying the bodies of the faithful to rest in the earth is a triumphal statement of our faith and hope in God, that the believer's death (an apparent loss) will indeed be swallowed up in victory at the return of Christ from heaven.
   
   
6. In observing this practice, we self-consciously follow Christ, whose mortal body was buried and whose glorified body was raised. We follow Jesus in death (burial of our bodies) as we do in life (suffering of our bodies), in hope that we will also be raised from the dead when He returns (glorification of our bodies).
   
   
7. The practice of burning corpses is common to these religions because in the Eastern way of thinking, the physical body is little more than a temporary vessel to carry the soul. It has no lasting significance, and therefore Eastern religions see no reason to cherish or preserve the body after death.
   
   
8. "To reject symbolism is to say the thing it symbolizes is not important. An attack on the symbol of burial and the anticipated resurrection of the body is an attack on important Christian doctrines." Geisler, Norman L., and Douglas E. Potter. "From Ashes to Ashes: Is Burial the Only Christian Option?." Christian Research Journal 20 (1998): 28-35.
   
   
9. "There is an important difference between what God can do and what we should do." ibid.
   
   
10. Since mutilating and burning our bodies is not a God-honoring thing for us to do in life, then we ought not do such things after death.
    
    
11. Every Christian has the opportunity to witness this gospel comfort to his family and friends when his body is buried, communicating hope in the bodily resurrection (1 Cor 15:42-49) at the return of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Th 4:13-18).

 

[Ben Zartman]

Thank you Zach, that was a good position paper. It has definitely changed my thinking. Some highlights to me:

1. 1 Cor 6:19b-20: "You are not your own, for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."
   
   
2. "Our Lord Himself, too, though He was to rise again the third day, applauds, and commends to our applause, the good work of the religious woman who poured precious ointment over His limbs, and did it against His burial. And the Gospel speaks with commendation of those who were careful to take down His body from the cross, and wrap it lovingly in costly cerements, and see to its burial. These instances certainly do not prove that corpses have any feeling; but they show that God’s providence extends even to the bodies of the dead, and that such pious offices are pleasing to Him, as cherishing faith in the resurrection." Augustine, "The City of God", Book I, Chapter 13
   
   
3. "For to what end was the rite of burial, as we have already seen, unless to teach that new life was prepared for the bodies thus deposited?" John Calvin, "Institutes", Vol. III, Chapter 25, p. 622
   
   
4. Destroying the body by burning is wholly inconsistent with the illustration of hope set forth in Christian burial. Note that it is the depiction of hope, not hope itself, that is obscured in cremation. (Emphasis in the original)
   
   
5. Laying the bodies of the faithful to rest in the earth is a triumphal statement of our faith and hope in God, that the believer's death (an apparent loss) will indeed be swallowed up in victory at the return of Christ from heaven.
   
   
6. In observing this practice, we self-consciously follow Christ, whose mortal body was buried and whose glorified body was raised. We follow Jesus in death (burial of our bodies) as we do in life (suffering of our bodies), in hope that we will also be raised from the dead when He returns (glorification of our bodies).
   
   
7. The practice of burning corpses is common to these religions because in the Eastern way of thinking, the physical body is little more than a temporary vessel to carry the soul. It has no lasting significance, and therefore Eastern religions see no reason to cherish or preserve the body after death.
   
   
8. "To reject symbolism is to say the thing it symbolizes is not important. An attack on the symbol of burial and the anticipated resurrection of the body is an attack on important Christian doctrines." Geisler, Norman L., and Douglas E. Potter. "From Ashes to Ashes: Is Burial the Only Christian Option?." Christian Research Journal 20 (1998): 28-35.
   
   
9. "There is an important difference between what God can do and what we should do." ibid.
   
   
10. Since mutilating and burning our bodies is not a God-honoring thing for us to do in life, then we ought not do such things after death.
    
    
11. Every Christian has the opportunity to witness this gospel comfort to his family and friends when his body is buried, communicating hope in the bodily resurrection (1 Cor 15:42-49) at the return of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Th 4:13-18).

I, for one, heartily disagree with the conclusion of the position paper. This has all been hashed out in another thread, but to speak briefly to several of the points:
1: We must glorify God in our bodies while we live and still have control over them. In death, whatever is done with our corpses cannot reflect on us, for our wishes may not be honored.
7: If pagan religions are being appealed to to show what not to do, what about the legions of heathen nations that embalmed and buried with no regard at all to God, but to an imagined afterlife?
8: This one is just stupid. No important doctrine is being attacked in cremation--God's power to resurrect even someone whose body has been destroyed by worms, as Job testified, is not doubted by the cremator. It begins to reek of superstition to think that one means of disposing of bodies will give them a better resurrection than another. And as far as worms VS ashes: The flesh eaten by worms becomes the worm itself, and is later eaten by other beasts, or gets burned in a forest fire, or dies and decomposes. What matter if the process is accelerated by combustion? There's less left of Job, now, I reckon, than of someone cremated ten years ago. But the hope of the resurrection doesn't rest in the smallest remnants of some carcass, but in the power of God.

Away this foolish superstition!

 

[chuckd]

The question wasn't motivated by cremation vs. burial, but it's certainly related. If I wouldn't mind having my resurrection body reconstituted from the few atoms that remained after cremation (or nuclear evaporation), why would I mind if God just gave me a resurrection body from scratch? Either one is more than I deserve in the first place.

A body made from scratch would not be you. "You" would still be in the ground somewhere.

 

[pgwolv]

I, for one, heartily disagree with the conclusion of the position paper. This has all been hashed out in another thread, but to speak briefly to several of the points:
1: We must glorify God in our bodies while we live and still have control over them. In death, whatever is done with our corpses cannot reflect on us, for our wishes may not be honored.
7: If pagan religions are being appealed to to show what not to do, what about the legions of heathen nations that embalmed and buried with no regard at all to God, but to an imagined afterlife?
8: This one is just stupid. No important doctrine is being attacked in cremation--God's power to resurrect even someone whose body has been destroyed by worms, as Job testified, is not doubted by the cremator. It begins to reek of superstition to think that one means of disposing of bodies will give them a better resurrection than another. And as far as worms VS ashes: The flesh eaten by worms becomes the worm itself, and is later eaten by other beasts, or gets burned in a forest fire, or dies and decomposes. What matter if the process is accelerated by combustion? There's less left of Job, now, I reckon, than of someone cremated ten years ago. But the hope of the resurrection doesn't rest in the smallest remnants of some carcass, but in the power of God.

Away this foolish superstition!

Hi Ben, please link that thread so that I can see if these specific points have been addressed; then perhaps we can discuss our views on it.

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

Yes, Ben @Ben Zartman ,

I'd like to see that thread (couldn't find it in my search). The RCUS paper was the most thorough thing I have read against cremation, and yet I am not convinced cremation is sin. In my country now, from what I have learned so far, as I'm not Greek Orthodox (even though I am a citizen), I cannot be buried here. Even when in the U.S., in New York, my state of residence, the costs – and even availability – were prohibitive. So far, there are not even any cremation facilities here in Cyprus. The cost to have that done in England is high (getting the body there, etc) – around €5000 euros.

The RCUS paper did not convince me it was sin, though possibly better to be buried. Even that is not certain to me. Some years ago here it was reported in the papers that grave robbers exhumed a man's grave and held his remains hostage, I think for monetary gain. In this world of growing madness, I can see other wicked persons doing the same to other ends. To use a saint's (all true believers are such) bones for evil purposes is easily possible. I will do what I think best, and – according to the light I have – God-honoring.

"Burial at sea" was an option (in the paper); so what do I do, get my wife and friends to tie weights around me and cast my body overboard wherever the water is sufficiently deep? My death would be trauma enough for her.

I will ask my Saviour for light in this matter. Tomorrow, the 21st, I'll be 81. I am slowing down, especially noticeable when I get up and walk.

 

[pgwolv]

The RCUS paper was the most thorough thing I have read against cremation, and yet I am not convinced cremation is sin...

The RCUS paper did not convince me it was sin, though possibly better to be buried. Even that is not certain to me...

I will do what I think best, and – according to the light I have – God-honoring...

Amen. I would say I like the symbolism, and I would like to reflect more on this issue, but I am also not convinced that it is a sin.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Amen. I would say I like the symbolism, and I would like to reflect more on this issue, but I am also not convinced that it is a sin.

A subject like this is where the biblical category of wisdom is more than a bit useful. It may be the wisest course, more often than not, to bury. But we shouldn't allege sin, even if people choose a less-wise option. Not even all unwise options are sinful, unless we think any rash act must be wicked. Sometimes, a prudential act, the best option of a less-than-ideal set, an imperfect choice done in faith is still an act of obedience coram deo.

 

[DNA=XX]

Let me begin by clearly affirming that I believe the bodily resurrection of Jesus is an essential element of the Christian faith (not because it prefigures what will happen to us but because it confirms Jesus' claims), and I also believe in the bodily resurrection of humans in general. I'm also not asking whether the bodily resurrection of humans is biblical but whether it's important whether the Bible speaks of it or not.

There have definitely been some people (take Hiroshima and Nagasaki for example), including some Christians, who were essentially vaporized when they died. My current suspicion is that God will, in His infinite knowledge, find a few of their atoms and change that into their resurrection body. But I find myself thinking, if He can do that and He can, why would I care HOW He creates my resurrection body? I only really care that my spirit is in it. Thoughts?

Do you agree that for Jesus to save us by causing the death of death, it was necessary for Jesus to become con-substantial (body and soul) with human beings and resurrect after dying so that HIs people could live body and soul ?

 

[Ben Zartman]

Hi Ben, please link that thread so that I can see if these specific points have been addressed; then perhaps we can discuss our views on it.

Sorry, I don't know which one it was specifically of the several threads on cremation, and I'd probably not be able to link to it if I knew....I'm terrible at this geek stuff. No doubt someone more handy could, er, resurrect it in a flash.

 

[Andrew35]

On the question of the "how" with respect to the resurrection of an obliterated body, I find it remarkable how we often limit God more than our own imaginations.

What I mean is, just as an example, is there any particular reason why God couldn't reach back into the past for the raw materials that constituted our bodies prior to death and bring it forward to the future for transformation?

Should this be possible for our sci-fi but impossible for our God?

Note, I'm not proposing this as a serious possibility, just confused as to why a failure of imagination should be taken as a theological difficulty.

 

[davejonescue]

In terms of cremation, we shouldn’t oppose it on “scientific” grounds in terms of the resurrection. That is, it’s not as if a body reduced to ashes can’t be reconstituted by God in the resurrection. Rather, it is opposed on theological grounds. Pagans burn their dead. A Christian buries both out of respect/dignity for the body created by God, and in faith as a seed planted.

If this is the case shouldn't there be a push for local bodies to procure benevolence funds to ensure their congregants are buried as opposed to cremated? We often times see in the Bible non-relatives burying the dead; especially as it regards Israel; and even a non-familial believer purchased the tomb of our Lord. Many people are left to cremation not as a first choice, but a financial necessity given the cost of funerals, grave sites, coffins; etc. We no longer, I am pretty sure, live in an age where one can bury a person on their property; nor do many districts have common cemeteries where the dead are afforded the respect of burial even if they cant afford it. Cremation is the poor mans passage to the yonder.

Also doesnt this verse make a stark distinction on the value of the body once dead, and the soul:
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

 

[pgwolv]

Also doesnt this verse make a stark distinction on the value of the body once dead, and the soul:
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

The defense that the RCUS report makes includes that we do try to honour a person's body; for instance, we do not chop up a body so that it takes up less space for burial; for the same reason we should not burn it. Now, I have not formed a strong opinion yet as to whether I agree with the reasoning, but although the soul is of much more value on earth than the body, it does not follow that we should treat it any which way.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

If anyone is interested, there are a few threads in the past where this issue of the body is discussed in relation to both burial and organ donation (the kind that occurs after being pronounced dead). It’s always interesting and thought-provoking to find MW’s comments on the topic of the body, in particular.

 

[Eyedoc84]

If this is the case shouldn't there be a push for local bodies to procure benevolence funds to ensure their congregants are buried as opposed to cremated? We often times see in the Bible non-relatives burying the dead; especially as it regards Israel; and even a non-familial believer purchased the tomb of our Lord. Many people are left to cremation not as a first choice, but a financial necessity given the cost of funerals, grave sites, coffins; etc. We no longer, I am pretty sure, live in an age where one can bury a person on their property; nor do many districts have common cemeteries where the dead are afforded the respect of burial even if they cant afford it. Cremation is the poor mans passage to the yonder.

Also doesnt this verse make a stark distinction on the value of the body once dead, and the soul:
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Scripture honors the body both alive and dead. Yes, local assemblies should do their part to help the faithful bury, and not burn, their dead.

 

[Ben Zartman]

The thing about "destroying both body as soul in hell" is that, 1: every unrepentant sinner, regardless of how he was buried/cremated/eaten, whatever, will have a resurrected body joined again to his soul to be cast into hell with for a destruction that will never end.
2: That we are not to fear what people will do with us in life or in death, for in either state the Christian belongs to God, who will raise him up incorruptible at the last day.
If a dead body is dishonored, it is usually done for the sake of the living that remain: to insult the relations, or for the self-aggrandisement of the killer. Once dead, there is no more harm that can be done to a person.
Also, in connection with all this, how is an unceremonious burial in a mass grave, such as has been perpetrated within living memory, better than a respectful cremation? People talk as though cremation was just an offhand way of burning stiffs to get them out from underfoot, but all the public carryings-on in honor of a decedent can be done whichever method is chosen to dispose of the corpse.