Is the Roman Catholic Mass / worship idolatry or not?

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

I believe the official RCC position would be that they are "aids to faith." They give the worshiper something to focus his attention on when praying or worshipping.

I had a Catholic once tell me that it is similar to Buddhism or Hinduism in that they have thousand of Gods to pray to and the RCC has thousands of saints to pray to. This makes for an easy change over. If you know any Catholics you immediately see that they have a saint to pray to for anything that is happening in their lives, including selling ones house. Simply plant a statue of St. Joseph (Jesus' step dad) in your front yard and you will sell your house.

There is a lot wrong with the RCC but if you listen to their theology it is not that different from your average arminian. I think there are Catholics who are saved but I don't think anyone could ever get saved according to what the chruch teaches.

I strongly disagree. They are more than aids to worship but it is still a violation of the second commandment. The teaching of Rome is a false gospel. The Puritans consider Romanism and Arminianism the two great enemies of the church.

Sir.

 

[mvdm]

Following up on the reference to the the Heidelberg catechism's description of the mass as a "condemnable idolatry", we should note the CRC has done away with confessing that language. From their February 2008 press release:

The final three paragraphs in the catechism containing “condemnable idolatry” have not been deleted from Q and A 80, but the section has been put in brackets.

In a footnote, the Synod has added the brackets “to indicate that they do not accurately reflect the official teaching and practice of today’s Roman Catholic Church and are no longer confessionally binding on members of the CRC.”

CRC Releases Final Report on Catholic Eucharist - Christian Reformed Church

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

The 1903 American WCF has also deleted the "synagogues of Satan" and the language in ch. 25 of the Papal Anti-Christ.

 

[py3ak]

According to the RPW, the mass is idolatry. It is also blasphemy, as many have noted in its "representation" of the unique sacrifice of Christ, and in the great power ascribed to the priest to compel Christ to come down from heaven. But probably the list could go on of ways that it is an offense to God and to godly men.

 

[SolaGratia]

We all pretty much know, by the grace of God, that not only the mass, but the whole system of the popish church teaches idolatry. The main problem is that the people in the pews are not aware of it. For this reason, they must be confronted with the true Gospel.

A la John Knox, John Calvin, Martin Luther, has worked the best!

It work for me.

 

[A5pointer]

Then the mass is idolatry, as it claims that a wafer is the very person of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The wafer however is not worshiped is it? Believe me, I feel very weird defending anything RC. I just think it is overboard and moving beyond the biblical definition of idolotry to label the mass as such. I am looking forward to this conversation as instructional. I voted no.

Yes, it is worshipped. The official teaching of Rome is that the bread and wine become the physical body of Christ when the priest elevates the host in the Roman mass. In the old Roman rite, that I grew up on, when the priest elevated the host, the acolyte would ring bells (which is still done in many massses) to indicate that this was the body of Christ. Many worshippers would make the sign of the cross or bow their heads (while in a posture of kneeling). After the priest would finish elevating the host he would genuflect. Roman Catholics are required to genuflect when they enter a Roman Catholic "church" because the consecrated bread from previous masses is stored in a box (tabernacle) on the main altar or side altar. At certain "services" the priest will place the consecrated host in what is called a monstrance and parade it before the people. He will leave this on a main altar for people to come for times of private adoration or worship. This is idolatry pure and simple.

I hear this, but have suggested that ignorance of this does not equal "worship of idols" for the participants. The thread continues to argue whether Catholics should be evangelized in their context but continues to miss the question. Is the mass the worship of idols? As a continuing question are we seeing the orthodox gatherings in the same light as they include icons. I still think it is wrong to dismiss these groups as engaging only in "idol worship". Wow sure feels lonely on the PB to stand alone on the question. Yikes.

 

[DMcFadden]

I cannot disagree with the charge of idolatry (after all, doesn't just about every sin reduce to idolatry in the end?), and voted "yes" in conformity to the Reformed confessional affirmations. However, I doubt that the average Catholic sees their sacramental observance as anything other than the worship of the triune God in a way that has historical continuity with the church all the way back to the first century. Wrong? Absoloutely!

My personal preference for describing the mass is to call it the rankest form of blasphemy in that it denies the finished work of Christ, subjecting him (in their view) to a continual sacrifice and so blaspheming Christ and his atonement. Idolatry is such a general evil, encompassing practically any turning from God for any reason, blasphemy describes a bit more specifically the problem in my opinion.

 

[caoclan]

I am a former RC. Here is an example of the idolatry of the mass. The Alter Christus.

 

[kvanlaan]

Is there any way to lead sheep out of the RCC without attending Mass?

Sure, bingo halls. Go forth, brethren, and reap the harvest! (If you can handle the gambling...)

Seriously though, I personally have a problem with the idea of attending mass for purposes of prosthelyzing.

Where does that end?

We attend Mass but do not participate, thus it is OK, as we are there to witness.

There are strip joints all over the place, full of people who have never heard the Gospel. If we aren't actually tucking any bills into G-strings, is this an appropriate mission field for the Christian? I would not enter into the hall of a mosque during prayers to spread the Word there - why is the Mass any different? Wait outside a cathedral to catch people coming out, sure, but need we take it further than that?

the CRC has done away with confessing that language

They've also 'invalidated' the 'maleness' of church office. Thankfully, the decisions of the CRC do not alter the content of the HC!

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Just to let you know my understanding about it a little more Daniel..... Have you ever had a friend at a Pub who needed your help because he was so blasted blind to his situation. I don't go to pubs or bars much. It isn't because I don't like to drink. I just don't think they are good environments that promote a good lifestyle. In fact I like my drinks overly strong. But I would go to a bar to be with a friend to help him get home. And I don't like bars and pubs either.

Something that is missing in this world is friendship. True friendship. And I can be friends with a Catholic. Some Protestants might have problems with this depending on the local environment.


This is one of my favorite Passages in the scripture.

Randy, I understand what you are saying here, as I once knew of a minister who used to spend his evenings picking up drunks from bars.

However, there is a difference in that it is not wrong in and of itself to go to a bar, as what goes in at them may not be sinful, though it may be wrong in some circumstances to go their (i.e. when there is a stripper or some other immoral thing). Whereas, what goes on in the Roman Catholic mass is always sinful.

I dont know about this Daniel. There is a vien of thought here that just walking into a mass can contaminate the believer. I deny this vehemently. Walking into a pub should do the same. If you believe that contamination comes form the outside, there is no difference.

I have read many of Spurgeons sermons and he wailed on people who went dancing, drinking, movies etc etc

By attending a mass you are present at an idolatrous service in which Christ is supposedly "re-sacrificed", surely such idolatry cannot but contaminate those who attend it.

While it is true that "out of the heart of man" proceeds idolatry, it nevertheless has external manifestations which defile those that partake in it.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Randy, I understand what you are saying here, as I once knew of a minister who used to spend his evenings picking up drunks from bars.

However, there is a difference in that it is not wrong in and of itself to go to a bar, as what goes in at them may not be sinful, though it may be wrong in some circumstances to go their (i.e. when there is a stripper or some other immoral thing). Whereas, what goes on in the Roman Catholic mass is always sinful.

I dont know about this Daniel. There is a vien of thought here that just walking into a mass can contaminate the believer. I deny this vehemently. Walking into a pub should do the same. If you believe that contamination comes form the outside, there is no difference.

I have read many of Spurgeons sermons and he wailed on people who went dancing, drinking, movies etc etc

By attending a mass you are present at an idolatrous service in which Christ is supposedly "re-sacrificed", surely such idolatry cannot but contaminate those who attend it.

While it is true that "out of the heart of man" proceeds idolatry, it nevertheless has external manifestations which defile those that partake in it.

I only observed. I didn't partake. Now you can argue all you want about degrees and such but I never agreed with the mass while attending a mass at a wedding or a Christmas function and I didn't partake of the elements. And I didn't kneel for them either. I sat and quietly prayed for Christ to reveal his truth to those individuals. I was not contaminated. I was a witness for the truth found in Christ to those who knew me. And I was a friend who shared in the wedding. Are you also going to say that a marriage performed in a Catholic Church is not a marriage? I warn you to tread lightly on this one. There is also the issue of the Reformers whose ordinations were done while they were Catholic. Did they have to be reordained. How far do you want to argue this point.

I was not contaminated by Roman Catholicism when I went to observe and find out what it was. I was not contaminated by Roman theology when I went to a wedding. My testimony wasn't damaged either. My friendships have benefited though.

 

[Mushroom]

The mass is idolatry, and the iconagraphy of the EO is idolatry. To say most of the members are ignorant of that fact is obvious, because they would say it is not. Its not like the priests know it is and hide it from the membership, they also believe it is not idolatry. So does this ignorance grant them immunity from the charge of being idolaters? I would say not. Note that the 1 Cor 5 verse speaks of any man called a brother being an idolater, which indicates that someone who calls himself a christian can be an idolater, which appears to describe the entire Roman congregation. The verse tells us to not keep company with such, not even for a meal. It appears that we are to deal with this category more rigidly than your run-of-the-mill pagan.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I hear this, but have suggested that ignorance of this does not equal "worship of idols" for the participants. The thread continues to argue whether Catholics should be evangelized in their context but continues to miss the question. Is the mass the worship of idols? As a continuing question are we seeing the orthodox gatherings in the same light as they include icons. I still think it is wrong to dismiss these groups as engaging only in "idol worship". Wow sure feels lonely on the PB to stand alone on the question. Yikes.

A5pointer,

You have not answered my question yet. Maybe you didn't see it. So here it is again.....

5pointer.....

Have you read Romans 1 where the people take the incorruptible God and put an image to him.

They say that Christ humbles himself and becomes the bread and wine.

What do you make of this passage.

(Rom 1:22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

(Rom 1:23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

I dont know about this Daniel. There is a vien of thought here that just walking into a mass can contaminate the believer. I deny this vehemently. Walking into a pub should do the same. If you believe that contamination comes form the outside, there is no difference.

I have read many of Spurgeons sermons and he wailed on people who went dancing, drinking, movies etc etc

By attending a mass you are present at an idolatrous service in which Christ is supposedly "re-sacrificed", surely such idolatry cannot but contaminate those who attend it.

While it is true that "out of the heart of man" proceeds idolatry, it nevertheless has external manifestations which defile those that partake in it.

I only observed. I didn't partake. Now you can argue all you want about degrees and such but I never agreed with the mass while attending a mass at a wedding or a Christmas function and I didn't partake of the elements. And I didn't kneel for them either. I sat and quietly prayed for Christ to reveal his truth to those individuals. I was not contaminated. I was a witness for the truth found in Christ to those who knew me. And I was a friend who shared in the wedding. Are you also going to say that a marriage performed in a Catholic Church is not a marriage? I warn you to tread lightly on this one. There is also the issue of the Reformers whose ordinations were done while they were Catholic. Did they have to be reordained. How far do you want to argue this point.

I was not contaminated by Roman Catholicism when I went to observe and find out what it was. I was not contaminated by Roman theology when I went to a wedding. My testimony wasn't damaged either. My friendships have benefited though.

Sorry Randy, I was referring to Nicholas' comments (I know your's are in there too, but that was not who I was replying to).

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

The mass is idolatry, and the iconagraphy of the EO is idolatry. To say most of the members are ignorant of that fact is obvious, because they would say it is not. Its not like the priests know it is and hide it from the membership, they also believe it is not idolatry. So does this ignorance grant them immunity from the charge of being idolaters? I would say not. Note that the 1 Cor 5 verse speaks of any man called a brother being an idolater, which indicates that someone who calls himself a christian can be an idolater, which appears to describe the entire Roman congregation. The verse tells us to not keep company with such, not even for a meal. It appears that we are to deal with this category more rigidly than your run-of-the-mill pagan.

Rome has apostasised so much that its adherents are generally run-of-the-mill pagans. I think the passage would apply to those who professed to be Christians (i.e. Evangelical Protestants) but were worshipping other gods.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

By attending a mass you are present at an idolatrous service in which Christ is supposedly "re-sacrificed", surely such idolatry cannot but contaminate those who attend it.

While it is true that "out of the heart of man" proceeds idolatry, it nevertheless has external manifestations which defile those that partake in it.

I only observed. I didn't partake. Now you can argue all you want about degrees and such but I never agreed with the mass while attending a mass at a wedding or a Christmas function and I didn't partake of the elements. And I didn't kneel for them either. I sat and quietly prayed for Christ to reveal his truth to those individuals. I was not contaminated. I was a witness for the truth found in Christ to those who knew me. And I was a friend who shared in the wedding. Are you also going to say that a marriage performed in a Catholic Church is not a marriage? I warn you to tread lightly on this one. There is also the issue of the Reformers whose ordinations were done while they were Catholic. Did they have to be reordained. How far do you want to argue this point.

I was not contaminated by Roman Catholicism when I went to observe and find out what it was. I was not contaminated by Roman theology when I went to a wedding. My testimony wasn't damaged either. My friendships have benefited though.

Sorry Randy, I was referring to Nicholas' comments (I know your's are in there too, but that was not who I was replying to).

But your implication attached a contamination to me also. So you got a reply.
Be careful when you start implying general things. Not everyone is "contaminated" by a Roman Catholic service.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

I only observed. I didn't partake. Now you can argue all you want about degrees and such but I never agreed with the mass while attending a mass at a wedding or a Christmas function and I didn't partake of the elements. And I didn't kneel for them either. I sat and quietly prayed for Christ to reveal his truth to those individuals. I was not contaminated. I was a witness for the truth found in Christ to those who knew me. And I was a friend who shared in the wedding. Are you also going to say that a marriage performed in a Catholic Church is not a marriage? I warn you to tread lightly on this one. There is also the issue of the Reformers whose ordinations were done while they were Catholic. Did they have to be reordained. How far do you want to argue this point.

I was not contaminated by Roman Catholicism when I went to observe and find out what it was. I was not contaminated by Roman theology when I went to a wedding. My testimony wasn't damaged either. My friendships have benefited though.

Sorry Randy, I was referring to Nicholas' comments (I know your's are in there too, but that was not who I was replying to).

But your implication attached a contamination to me also. So you got a reply.
Be careful when you start implying general things. Not everyone is "contaminated" by a Roman Catholic service.

But how can you not be? Scripture tells us to "flee from idolatry", and attending a Roman Catholic service is not fleeing from it, even if you go there out of praiseworthy motives, and even if you do not partake of the Mass.

 

[jawyman]

When its theological foundations are understood, it is simple to give the correct answer. Romanist worship encourages idolatry in many ways, the mass being the most visible manifestation of this.

 

[A5pointer]

I hear this, but have suggested that ignorance of this does not equal "worship of idols" for the participants. The thread continues to argue whether Catholics should be evangelized in their context but continues to miss the question. Is the mass the worship of idols? As a continuing question are we seeing the orthodox gatherings in the same light as they include icons. I still think it is wrong to dismiss these groups as engaging only in "idol worship". Wow sure feels lonely on the PB to stand alone on the question. Yikes.

A5pointer,

You have not answered my question yet. Maybe you didn't see it. So here it is again.....

5pointer.....

Have you read Romans 1 where the people take the incorruptible God and put an image to him.

They say that Christ humbles himself and becomes the bread and wine.

What do you make of this passage.

(Rom 1:22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

(Rom 1:23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Sorry, thank you for asking again. Respectfully, I see no correlation. The Roman Catholic error in the mass has nothing to do with "an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things" And again, I do not see how this intersects the question, "is the mass the same as the worship of idols"? Are we saying that there can be no true worship by any individuals attending the mass? I still think this is going too far.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Sorry, thank you for asking again. Respectfully, I see no correlation. The Roman Catholic error in the mass has nothing to do with "an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things" And again, I do not see how this intersects the question, "is the mass the same as the worship of idols"? Are we saying that there can be no true worship by any individuals attending the mass? I still think this is going too far.

You don't think that the belief of God coming and presenting himself in the form of a piece of bread and wine is not taking the uncorruptible God and making him into something even far more less than a living object? You don't think that this applies? Bread and wine are even lower elements than the ones mentioned in the passage.

(Rom 1:22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

(Rom 1:23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Sorry Randy, I was referring to Nicholas' comments (I know your's are in there too, but that was not who I was replying to).

But your implication attached a contamination to me also. So you got a reply.
Be careful when you start implying general things. Not everyone is "contaminated" by a Roman Catholic service.

But how can you not be? Scripture tells us to "flee from idolatry", and attending a Roman Catholic service is not fleeing from it, even if you go there out of praiseworthy motives, and even if you do not partake of the Mass.

Daniel,
Give it up. I did not adhere to any doctrine that was idolatrous. Some things performed in the Catholic Church God does sanction. Marriage being one. Some think that Baptism is another on this board. I give my blessings upon weddings and go grieve with those who grieve. I know God blesses those things despite the bad in this world. I have fled idolatry and stood with the sinner. If fleeing idolatry is removing myself from sinners than I will be lost for ever. Even Paul in 1 Corinthians 5 acknowledges we are to be in the world. My voting booth for the political stuff was in a Catholic Church this year. I was not contaminated then and that church is full of images and statues.

If your conscience is to weak to enter a Roman building I suggest you stay away from them. Mine isn't.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

But your implication attached a contamination to me also. So you got a reply.
Be careful when you start implying general things. Not everyone is "contaminated" by a Roman Catholic service.

But how can you not be? Scripture tells us to "flee from idolatry", and attending a Roman Catholic service is not fleeing from it, even if you go there out of praiseworthy motives, and even if you do not partake of the Mass.

Daniel,
Give it up. I did not adhere to any doctrine that was idolatrous. Some things performed in the Catholic Church God does sanction. Marriage being one. Some think that Baptism is another on this board. I give my blessings upon weddings and go grieve with those who grieve. I know God blesses those things despite the bad in this world. I have fled idolatry and stood with the sinner. If fleeing idolatry is removing myself from sinners than I will be lost for ever. Even Paul in 1 Corinthians 5 acknowledges we are to be in the world. My voting booth for the political stuff was in a Catholic Church this year. I was not contaminated then and that church is full of images and statues.

If your conscience is to weak to enter a Roman building I suggest you stay away from them. Mine isn't.

Randy (I love the way you put things) I am not saying you cannot enter a Roman building, but you should not attend a Roman service which is designed to worship the "god" of Roman Catholicism. This does not mean that we never befriend Roman Catholics, but we should not join with them in their services any more than we should attend Muslim weddings or Hindu weddings. Now I am not saying that you agreed with Rome when you were at the service, but I cannot see how attending a service of a false religion can possibly help its adherents to forsake it.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Randy (I love the way you put things) I am not saying you cannot enter a Roman building, but you should not attend a Roman service which is designed to worship the "god" of Roman Catholicism. This does not mean that we never befriend Roman Catholics, but we should not join with them in their services any more than we should attend Muslim weddings or Hindu weddings. Now I am not saying that you agreed with Rome when you were at the service, but I cannot see how attending a service of a false religion can possibly help its adherents to forsake it.

I understand that you don't see how it can do anything. That is why I told you to stay away if your conscience bothers you about it. I did mention baptisms also. You make it sound like I only mentioned buildings. But the way you make it sound you need to stay away from buildings because they reek with idolatry in images of Christ and crucifixes. These things are objects and might contaminate you. Icons may do the same things.

You don't have to see it. I am not asking you to see it. I am telling you to steer clear if your conscience bothers you about it. I am also telling you I am not contaminated by it and I do have friends that are true friends that have been Catholic and are not now. You don't have to see it.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Randy (I love the way you put things) I am not saying you cannot enter a Roman building, but you should not attend a Roman service which is designed to worship the "god" of Roman Catholicism. This does not mean that we never befriend Roman Catholics, but we should not join with them in their services any more than we should attend Muslim weddings or Hindu weddings. Now I am not saying that you agreed with Rome when you were at the service, but I cannot see how attending a service of a false religion can possibly help its adherents to forsake it.

I understand that you don't see how it can do anything. That is why I told you to stay away if your conscience bothers you about it. I did mention baptisms also. You make it sound like I only mentioned buildings. But the way you make it sound you need to stay away from buildings because they reek with idolatry in images of Christ and crucifixes. These things are objects and might contaminate you. Icons may do the same things.

You don't have to see it. I am not asking you to see it. I am telling you to steer clear if your conscience bothers you about it. I am also telling you I am not contaminated by it and I do have friends that are true friends that have been Catholic and are not now. You don't have to see it.

Fair enough, we will just have to agree to differ on this one (not to mention the fact that it is 4 am over here )

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Fair enough, we will just have to agree to differ on this one (not to mention the fact that it is 4 am over here )

Yeah, I agree. I was done also. If you had one more argument I wasn't going to respond. LOL

Goodnight brother,

Love ya,
Randy

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

Fair enough, we will just have to agree to differ on this one (not to mention the fact that it is 4 am over here )

Yeah, I agree. I was done also. If you had one more argument I wasn't going to respond. LOL

Goodnight brother,

Love ya,
Randy

Thanks Randy.

 

[Amazing Grace]

Randy (I love the way you put things) I am not saying you cannot enter a Roman building, but you should not attend a Roman service which is designed to worship the "god" of Roman Catholicism. This does not mean that we never befriend Roman Catholics, but we should not join with them in their services any more than we should attend Muslim weddings or Hindu weddings. Now I am not saying that you agreed with Rome when you were at the service, but I cannot see how attending a service of a false religion can possibly help its adherents to forsake it.

I understand that you don't see how it can do anything. That is why I told you to stay away if your conscience bothers you about it. I did mention baptisms also. You make it sound like I only mentioned buildings. But the way you make it sound you need to stay away from buildings because they reek with idolatry in images of Christ and crucifixes. These things are objects and might contaminate you. Icons may do the same things.

You don't have to see it. I am not asking you to see it. I am telling you to steer clear if your conscience bothers you about it. I am also telling you I am not contaminated by it and I do have friends that are true friends that have been Catholic and are not now. You don't have to see it.

Fair enough, we will just have to agree to differ on this one (not to mention the fact that it is 4 am over here )

Daniel:

Do you have any rc's in your family or friends? Have you ever had a choice to actually give an opinion on this thread? I am just asking here Daniel.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

I understand that you don't see how it can do anything. That is why I told you to stay away if your conscience bothers you about it. I did mention baptisms also. You make it sound like I only mentioned buildings. But the way you make it sound you need to stay away from buildings because they reek with idolatry in images of Christ and crucifixes. These things are objects and might contaminate you. Icons may do the same things.

You don't have to see it. I am not asking you to see it. I am telling you to steer clear if your conscience bothers you about it. I am also telling you I am not contaminated by it and I do have friends that are true friends that have been Catholic and are not now. You don't have to see it.

Fair enough, we will just have to agree to differ on this one (not to mention the fact that it is 4 am over here )

Daniel:

Do you have any rc's in your family or friends? Have you ever had a choice to actually give an opinion on this thread? I am just asking here Daniel.

Yes, I have a few relatives who are RCs. They have never even asked me to attend their weddings, Christenings etc, as they know I would refuse.

 

[Amazing Grace]

Fair enough, we will just have to agree to differ on this one (not to mention the fact that it is 4 am over here )

Daniel:

Do you have any rc's in your family or friends? Have you ever had a choice to actually give an opinion on this thread? I am just asking here Daniel.

Yes, I have a few relatives who are RCs. They have never even asked me to attend their weddings, Christenings etc, as they know I would refuse.

What do you mean by a 'few?" Well then your reputation preceedes you in the matter with them honestly. Could it be you are as polemical with family as you are on here at times?

 

[Stephen]

I understand the point you are making, Daniel. My family are all Roman Catholics and it is difficult when there is a wedding or funeral. When I have attended masses on occassion, I refuse to kneel or participate. We do not attend a hindu temple in order to witness to Hindu's, so you make a valid point.

I struggle with this issue. I have attended both weddings and funerals at Papist sites ( I refuse to use the word church in connection with them). I view such times of attendance as important to "reaching out and supporting" friends and loved ones.

It is not a supporting of their false religion, but hopefully a means of encouraging and supporting them from the side of truth,

LIkewise, I do not kneel or in any way participate. But alway make sure to speak with those who I am "there for" and try to impart some word of truth.

I do not, in any way view my presence there as "worship."

I have taken the same position as you, that I am their to support family at times like a funeral, but I understand where Daniel is coming from on this. It is difficult for those of us who were Papists when we are in these situations, because I have been very uncomfortable many times going back, because I know this is false worship. Margaret (Gal. 220) previously mentioned her experience attending her father's funeral, and I must commend her for her stand, as difficult as it was. When I read Knox's classic treatis on worship it makes me realize how much more radical he was in his approach to Papist worship.