Is This Antinomianism?

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Blueridge Believer

Puritan Board Professor
"Christ IS THE END OF THE LAW."

Our Lord Jesus Christ is the termination of the law. Yes, you read the sentence right. Christ is the end of the law in the sense that he is the termination of it. Dead is just about as terminated as you can get; and Paul tells us that if we are truly married to Christ we are dead to the law (Rom. 7:1-4).


Christ has terminated the law as a covenant of life - "We are not under the law, but under grace." Christ has terminated the law's curse and penalty (Gal. 3:13). In Christ, every believer has a just, righteous claim of merit upon all the blessedness of everlasting glory (Psa. 32:1-2).


Do you see the sweet mystery of salvation by the substitutionary work of Christ? The law has no claim upon those for whom Christ died. The curse spent itself on our Redeemer. We are dead to the law. We are righteous, justified, guiltless, innocent in Christ.


The law of God has nothing to do with the believer.


HOW ABOUT THIS?:

A FEW MORE THOUGHTS ABOUT SABBATH KEEPING

4. However, there is absolutely no sense in which we keep a legal sabbath day in this age of grace. Why are we so insistent and dogmatic about this? Because Christ, who is the Lord of the sabbath, is Christ our Sabbath. For us to go back to keeping a sabbath day, as the Jews did in the Old Testament, or for us to put on the yoke of legal religion, is to say that Christ fulfilled nothing! Legalism is, in its essence, a denial of Christ's finished work as the sinner's Substitute. That was the reason for Paul's strong denunciation of Peter's behavior at Antioch.

5. Christ is the end of the law (Rom. 10:4). That statement by Paul means exactly what it appears on the surface to mean. It matters not whether you read it in Greek, English, Spanish, French, or Chinese. When the Holy Spirit says, "Christ is the end of the law," he means for us to understand that our Lord Jesus Christ is…

The Fulfillment of the Law.
The Satisfaction of the Law.
The Purpose for which the Law was Given.
The Termination of the Law.

1. If you can find me any place in human language where the word end does not mean end, I will eat my dictionary and my Bible too. If the law is fulfilled, satisfied, and its purpose accomplished in and by Christ, then it finds its termination in Christ.

6. The New Testament expressly forbids sabbath observance by believers. Not only is there no instruction on how believers should keep the sabbath in this gospel age, the practice is specifically forbidden (Col. 2:16-17).
 
"Christ IS THE END OF THE LAW."

Our Lord Jesus Christ is the termination of the law. Yes, you read the sentence right. Christ is the end of the law in the sense that he is the termination of it. Dead is just about as terminated as you can get; and Paul tells us that if we are truly married to Christ we are dead to the law (Rom. 7:1-4).


Christ has terminated the law as a covenant of life - "We are not under the law, but under grace." Christ has terminated the law's curse and penalty (Gal. 3:13). In Christ, every believer has a just, righteous claim of merit upon all the blessedness of everlasting glory (Psa. 32:1-2).


Do you see the sweet mystery of salvation by the substitutionary work of Christ? The law has no claim upon those for whom Christ died. The curse spent itself on our Redeemer. We are dead to the law. We are righteous, justified, guiltless, innocent in Christ.


The law of God has nothing to do with the believer.

Fortner is preaching the Gospel of Grace here, elevating it to where it belongs. We must also remember Fortner is aggressive and zealous when he speaks. As Martin llyod Jones said;" If a preacher is never accused of being antinomian, he better look at his message to make sure he is preaching the free grace of God contained in the Pauline corpus." ( or something like that:))
 
"Christ IS THE END OF THE LAW."

Our Lord Jesus Christ is the termination of the law. Yes, you read the sentence right. Christ is the end of the law in the sense that he is the termination of it. Dead is just about as terminated as you can get; and Paul tells us that if we are truly married to Christ we are dead to the law (Rom. 7:1-4).


Christ has terminated the law as a covenant of life - "We are not under the law, but under grace." Christ has terminated the law's curse and penalty (Gal. 3:13). In Christ, every believer has a just, righteous claim of merit upon all the blessedness of everlasting glory (Psa. 32:1-2).


Do you see the sweet mystery of salvation by the substitutionary work of Christ? The law has no claim upon those for whom Christ died. The curse spent itself on our Redeemer. We are dead to the law. We are righteous, justified, guiltless, innocent in Christ.


The law of God has nothing to do with the believer.

Fortner is preaching the Gospel of Grace here, elevating it to where it belongs. We must also remember Fortner is aggressive and zealous when he speaks. As Martin llyod Jones said;" If a preacher is never accused of being antinomian, he better look at his message to make sure he is preaching the free grace of God contained in the Pauline corpus." ( or something like that:))


Thanks for your input brother. If the law is "termitnated" has he says, how do we determine what sin is? Afterall, John says that sin is the transgression of the law. If there is no law there is no sin.
 
The law of God has nothing to do with the believer.
I suppose the Psalmist was not a believer, then?

Psalm 19.

Is. 40:8

The grass withers and the flowers fade, but the word of our God stands forever.

Is Fortner distinguishing between the ceremonial laws (which we're shadows and types pointing to Christ) and the moral law (Those which are written on the hearts of men, as found in the Decalogue)?

If not, then YES, it's Antinomian.

:2cents:

He says the law of God has nothing to do with the believer and that keeping the sabbath is forbidden.

"6. The New Testament expressly forbids sabbath observance by believers. Not only is there no instruction on how believers should keep the sabbath in this gospel age, the practice is specifically forbidden (Col. 2:16-17)."
 
The law of God has nothing to do with the believer.
I suppose the Psalmist was not a believer, then?

Psalm 19.

Is. 40:8

The grass withers and the flowers fade, but the word of our God stands forever.

Is Fortner distinguishing between the ceremonial laws (which we're shadows and types pointing to Christ) and the moral law (Those which are written on the hearts of men, as found in the Decalogue)?

If not, then YES, it's Antinomian.

:2cents:

He says the law of God has nothing to do with the believer and that keeping the sabbath is forbidden.

"6. The New Testament expressly forbids sabbath observance by believers. Not only is there no instruction on how believers should keep the sabbath in this gospel age, the practice is specifically forbidden (Col. 2:16-17)."

Those who believe this put themselves in quite a quandry. They are forbidden to set aside one day in seven for corporate worship. They are forced (by their own logic) to meet on a sporadic schedule because if they ever accidentally meet 8 days after the last meeting they broke their own commandment.

Good luck!
 
More confusion. Here he says we are not bound by the moral law but we are not free to live contrary to it.

SOVEREIGN GRACE ARTICLES

Let me state emphatically that there is no sense in which the believer is under the law. We observe no covenant with the law, no ceremony of the law, and no commitment to the law. And we fear no curse from the law. In the fullest sense of the word, we are free! In writing to the Galatians about the moral law (and we know that it was the moral law and not the ceremonial law that is in question, because he quotes directly from Deuteronomy 27:26, a passage dealing specifically with the moral law) the Apostle Paul said, "Cursed is everyone that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." And he calls it foolish and bewitching for a man to suppose that he can be either justified or sanctified by the law. In every respect, "Christ is the end of the law's types, ceremonies, covenants, and commandments. Our legal and moral commitment to the law of God was fully satisfied in the Representative Life and Substitutionary Death of the Lord Jesus Christ in our stead.


But I must, with equal emphasis, say the believer has neither the desire nor the liberty to break the law of God in any point. We are not antinomians (Lawless or against the law) though he may lay that hidious charge against us for insisting upon our freedom from the law, even as they did against the Apostle Paul. But the law is not our principle of life.
 
More confusion. Here he says we are not bound by the moral law but we are not free to live contrary to it.

SOVEREIGN GRACE ARTICLES

Let me state emphatically that there is no sense in which the believer is under the law. We observe no covenant with the law, no ceremony of the law, and no commitment to the law. And we fear no curse from the law. In the fullest sense of the word, we are free! In writing to the Galatians about the moral law (and we know that it was the moral law and not the ceremonial law that is in question, because he quotes directly from Deuteronomy 27:26, a passage dealing specifically with the moral law) the Apostle Paul said, "Cursed is everyone that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." And he calls it foolish and bewitching for a man to suppose that he can be either justified or sanctified by the law. In every respect, "Christ is the end of the law's types, ceremonies, covenants, and commandments. Our legal and moral commitment to the law of God was fully satisfied in the Representative Life and Substitutionary Death of the Lord Jesus Christ in our stead.


But I must, with equal emphasis, say the believer has neither the desire nor the liberty to break the law of God in any point. We are not antinomians (Lawless or against the law) though he may lay that hidious charge against us for insisting upon our freedom from the law, even as they did against the Apostle Paul. But the law is not our principle of life.



I agree wholeheartedly with this and give an Amen. As far as I see it he is only speaking of the active obedience of Christ imputed to the believer. AS far as his take on the sabbath, I am not so sure about that one. He is right about one thing though, Paul himself was called antinomian also. Sanctification through Christs active obedience is a grand truth.

Fortner also believes in immediate sanctification, not progressive sanctification, therefore he is starting from this understanding in regards to law in my estimation. I do agree that we are never alone in our journey and can never take Christ out of the equation for sanctification.
 
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All that the passage in Romans says is that Christ is the telos of the Law. That can either mean that the law is dead and those moral directives in the ten commandments are no longer binding: free love everybody! Or it can mean that Christ is the goal of the law, which is a much sounder translation in terms of Biblical Theology and Ethics.


telos can either mean goal or termination.
 
All that the passage in Romans says is that Christ is the telos of the Law. That can either mean that the law is dead and those moral directives in the ten commandments are no longer binding: free love everybody! Or it can mean that Christ is the goal of the law, which is a much sounder translation in terms of Biblical Theology and Ethics.


telos can either mean goal or termination.

I dont know about this Jacob. Every time telos is used, could you imagine translating it goal? Try it I did, and it left me shaking my head

Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.(goal)

Jhn 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.(goal)

Phl 3:19 Whose end(goal) [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
 
In James 5:11 the KJV reads "Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord."

The ESV translates it "You have heard of the steadfastness of Job, and you have seen the purpose (telos) of the Lord.

Here telos obviously means end in the sense of purpose or goal.
 
This appears antinomian to me. If he is free from the law, then how does he explain literally mountains of legislation at both the Federal and State level, along with courts, lawyers, &c? All those that are free from the law need to do is open their refrigerator and you'll find Federally regulated meat, eggs, cheese, milk and then a 1.6 gallon regulated flush in the bathroom, my goodness there are laws everywhere governing everything, like I said, Congress has so interjected itself that they govern how much water you use to flush your toilet. You could spend all day everyday just reading all of the laws you are subject to and never get to the end of them before you die. Go into any courtroom and you'll find Leviticus fully operative complete with sin and heave offerings (e.g., fines and court costs), a bar separating an accused from the altar, with a black robed priestclass mediating Justice. Doesn't look like he is very "free from the law" to me, just looks like he is denying the Lordship of Christ whereby the end of his theology is the Divine Right of Kings and the total state claiming dominion over every aspect of man's life in contradiction to the Great Commission.
 
5. Christ is the end of the law (Rom. 10:4). That statement by Paul means exactly what it appears on the surface to mean. It matters not whether you read it in Greek, English, Spanish, French, or Chinese. When the Holy Spirit says, "Christ is the end of the law," he means for us to understand that our Lord Jesus Christ is…

The Fulfillment of the Law.
The Satisfaction of the Law.
The Purpose for which the Law was Given.
The Termination of the Law.

Context is very important here and I think Jacob's point is well taken. How can it possibly mean the 'termination' of the Law? That would be anarchy.

I can appreciate Lloyd Jones' sentiment about desiring to sound antinomian, but shouldn't we really desire to sound biblical?
 
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.(goal)

Jhn 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.(goal)

Phl 3:19 Whose end(goal) [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Fascinating. With the exception of Luke 1:33, I think understanding that telos can mean purpose might actually clarify the meaning of the verses.

I'm going to have to do a word study on telos just to see what other verses use the word. :)
 
This appears antinomian to me. If he is free from the law, then how does he explain literally mountains of legislation at both the Federal and State level, along with courts, lawyers, &c? All those that are free from the law need to do is open their refrigerator and you'll find Federally regulated meat, eggs, cheese, milk and then a 1.6 gallon regulated flush in the bathroom, my goodness there are laws everywhere governing everything, like I said, Congress has so interjected itself that they govern how much water you use to flush your toilet. You could spend all day everyday just reading all of the laws you are subject to and never get to the end of them before you die. Go into any courtroom and you'll find Leviticus fully operative complete with sin and heave offerings (e.g., fines and court costs), a bar separating an accused from the altar, with a black robed priestclass mediating Justice. Doesn't look like he is very "free from the law" to me, just looks like he is denying the Lordship of Christ whereby the end of his theology is the Divine Right of Kings and the total state claiming dominion over every aspect of man's life in contradiction to the Great Commission.


By LAW he is referring to the Sianiatic code given to Israel..............
 
This appears antinomian to me. If he is free from the law, then how does he explain literally mountains of legislation at both the Federal and State level, along with courts, lawyers, &c? All those that are free from the law need to do is open their refrigerator and you'll find Federally regulated meat, eggs, cheese, milk and then a 1.6 gallon regulated flush in the bathroom, my goodness there are laws everywhere governing everything, like I said, Congress has so interjected itself that they govern how much water you use to flush your toilet. You could spend all day everyday just reading all of the laws you are subject to and never get to the end of them before you die. Go into any courtroom and you'll find Leviticus fully operative complete with sin and heave offerings (e.g., fines and court costs), a bar separating an accused from the altar, with a black robed priestclass mediating Justice. Doesn't look like he is very "free from the law" to me, just looks like he is denying the Lordship of Christ whereby the end of his theology is the Divine Right of Kings and the total state claiming dominion over every aspect of man's life in contradiction to the Great Commission.

Its never "Law versus No Law" it is always "God's Law versus Man's Law".

We do not keep the Law for justification (that is damnable heresy Gal. 1:6-9), but we do keep it as a rule of life.
 
This appears antinomian to me. If he is free from the law, then how does he explain literally mountains of legislation at both the Federal and State level, along with courts, lawyers, &c? All those that are free from the law need to do is open their refrigerator and you'll find Federally regulated meat, eggs, cheese, milk and then a 1.6 gallon regulated flush in the bathroom, my goodness there are laws everywhere governing everything, like I said, Congress has so interjected itself that they govern how much water you use to flush your toilet. You could spend all day everyday just reading all of the laws you are subject to and never get to the end of them before you die. Go into any courtroom and you'll find Leviticus fully operative complete with sin and heave offerings (e.g., fines and court costs), a bar separating an accused from the altar, with a black robed priestclass mediating Justice. Doesn't look like he is very "free from the law" to me, just looks like he is denying the Lordship of Christ whereby the end of his theology is the Divine Right of Kings and the total state claiming dominion over every aspect of man's life in contradiction to the Great Commission.

Its never "Law versus No Law" it is always "God's Law versus Man's Law".

We do not keep the Law for justification (that is damnable heresy Gal. 1:6-9), but we do keep it as a rule of life.


That's right and his stand means that his "freedom from God's Law" is total law from man which is a political religion that posits a political salvation. If God no longer speaks in terms of His Law, which is the end of his position, then there is no high court of appeal above and beyond man to curb his quest to be as god and determine good and evil for himself. So, he reads "Christ is the end of the law" and then negates God as Lawgiver instead of negating the condemnation of the Law which Christ fulfilled and suffered in our stead.

Of course, Pauls' polemics against the Law are against the Law as mediator (Judaism) - which God never intended the Law to be, not against the Law as Law, which is a rule of conduct.

He starts with Greek philosophy, filters Scripture through it, and ends up with ascetic pietistic Christianity.
 
I can appreciate Lloyd Jones' sentiment about desiring to sound antinomian, but shouldn't we really desire to sound biblical?

AS all pithy sayings go, they are not to be examined under a microscope. Basically Jones is saying that Grace can NEVER be elevated too much. And he for one is biblical also. So when you preach, you know your heart, and if you have not been accused wrongly of this, then you are not preaching grace as it should be preached.
 
This appears antinomian to me. If he is free from the law, then how does he explain literally mountains of legislation at both the Federal and State level, along with courts, lawyers, &c? All those that are free from the law need to do is open their refrigerator and you'll find Federally regulated meat, eggs, cheese, milk and then a 1.6 gallon regulated flush in the bathroom, my goodness there are laws everywhere governing everything, like I said, Congress has so interjected itself that they govern how much water you use to flush your toilet. You could spend all day everyday just reading all of the laws you are subject to and never get to the end of them before you die. Go into any courtroom and you'll find Leviticus fully operative complete with sin and heave offerings (e.g., fines and court costs), a bar separating an accused from the altar, with a black robed priestclass mediating Justice. Doesn't look like he is very "free from the law" to me, just looks like he is denying the Lordship of Christ whereby the end of his theology is the Divine Right of Kings and the total state claiming dominion over every aspect of man's life in contradiction to the Great Commission.

Its never "Law versus No Law" it is always "God's Law versus Man's Law".

We do not keep the Law for justification (that is damnable heresy Gal. 1:6-9), but we do keep it as a rule of life.


That's right and his stand means that his "freedom from God's Law" is total law from man which is a political religion that posits a political salvation. If God no longer speaks in terms of His Law, which is the end of his position, then there is no high court of appeal above and beyond man to curb his quest to be as god and determine good and evil for himself. So, he reads "Christ is the end of the law" and then negates God as Lawgiver instead of negating the condemnation of the Law which Christ fulfilled and suffered in our stead.

Of course, Pauls' polemics against the Law are against the Law as mediator (Judaism) - which God never intended the Law to be, not against the Law as Law, which is a rule of conduct.

He starts with Greek philosophy, filters Scripture through it, and ends up with ascetic pietistic Christianity.



This is specualtive Thomas. Political salvation? Is that a new buzz word?
 
Josh-
I enjoyed thy blog. Of thy responce I canst only say that thou waxeth eloquent.


The Law is Not a Boogey-Man

Recently, it has been asserted that I am living too much “under the Law.” But the assertion does not cease there. Pitted against me living too much “under the Law” was the presumption that I was not living enough “in the Holy Spirit.” Now all of this was, to be honest, confounding and news to me. How one who does not know me could, with any intellectual honesty whatsoever, impute such sentiments to my state of being left me with only two logical possibilities.


Either:
1. Said person has obviously not taken the time to read even just a small portion of my blog entries of substance, thus appreciating the greater context in which I discuss God’s Law.​

Or:
2. Said person has textual evidence from my own hand (keyboard) by which he could expose and indict me, proving such allegations to be, in fact, true.​
Since no evidence was laid forth, I suppose I will opt for the first. It is apparent that whilst I have put many an emphases in my blog concerning God’s Law, portions in which I have discussed the work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration, the Gospel of Grace’s saving power, et al have been selectively passed over. However, before addressing the neglect of my accuser in considering the exhaustive context of my writings, let us briefly examine a role/some roles in which God’s Law ought to act in the life of a believer. I feel this is necessary because I believe that said person’s allegations stem from a misunderstanding of what it means to be “under the Law.” Respectfully, though I believe his intentions positive, I fear he has fallen prey to the idea that those of us who are under grace can only be out from “under the Law” by casting it aside. Such a belief is unfounded in Scripture and, I believe, a revolt against God’s provision of goodness He has given us in the Law.



First, what does God’s Word say about God’s Law? Many things. My personal favorite follows thus from Psalm 19:
7 The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;​
8 the precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes;​
9 the fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the Lord are true, and righteous altogether.​
10 More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold;sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb.​
11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward.​
I am certain that Biblical Christians would all agree that we can trust Scripture, no? Not only can we trust in Scripture, we can love and obey it wholeheartedly, without fear of it leading us astray. Thus, it follows we can also believe in and trust what the Psalmist says here. Let us consider a few of the Psalmist’s descriptors of the Law.

1. God’s Law is Perfect (v.7)


Hebrew: תמים –Transliteration: tamiym — which means:
1) complete, whole, entire, sound​
a) complete, whole, entire​
b) whole, sound, healthful​
c) complete, entire (of time)​
d) sound, wholesome, unimpaired, innocent, having integrity​
e) what is complete or entirely in accord with truth and fact​

Accidental is certainly no way to characterize the Psalmist’s placing of perfect as the first descriptor of God’s Law in this passage. Rather, it lays the foundation for all those which proceed thereafter. Because God’s Law is perfect, we can be confident that to the “revived soul” it:
-is sure, bringing wisdom to the simple​
-is right, rejoicing the heart​
-is pure, enlightening the eyes​

So not only is the Law all these perfect things, but it does and brings good things! Wisdom, Joy, Illumination, and Rewards. That doesn’t sound scary, nor is it something I mind living “under.”
icon_wink.gif
Now, considering the given definition of perfect, I believe we are safe to proclaim that God’s Law is perpetual. If it is perfect (and it is), how could one even imply that it is bad, deficient, or whatever one wishes to say, enough that we need to be finished with it? I mean, it is complete, not lacking in anything, sound, etc., thus it has no need to be abolished. Next, allow me to quote that Esteemed Apostle, when he writes:
So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. - Romans 7:12​
Having briefly touched the surface, let me say that I, in no way, think my accuser would disagree thus far with what I’ve said. “So, then, what is the purpose, Josh?” To point out that when the Apostle says “you are not under law but under grace,” he does not mean that the Law is bad, or that it is no longer in effect. Granted, there are certain Mosaic, Ceremonial, and Judicial laws which are no longer in effect, but not without reason. Those very things no longer have any typological use, having been fulfilled in Christ. No, what I speak of is God’s Moral Law.

What was Paul saying, then? The same thing that is true for every believer in all times in all ages ranging from Adam to present. That, before God so graciously regenerated and justifies a sinner, he is condemned by the Law. Not because the Law is in any way deficient. NO! Because men are deficient. The Law stands as a condemnation against those who have not been saved by the Law Giver. However, once the sinner is graciously brought into the Law Giver’s family, he is no longer condemned by that Law, but saved by the Law Giver’s grace.

Therefore, since it is nothing inherent within the Law that is condemnable, deficient, etc. Paul does not mean that the Law is no longer authoritative, binding, or important for the Christian. We know that the Law is perfect, good, holy, just, rewarding, etc. How, then, could we say it is abolished? The Law, for the unbeliever, serves one of two purposes: Either, his condemnation unto everlasting hell, or his conviction unto repentance, conversion and everlasting glory.

For the Christian, though, the Law is still authoritative, binding, and important. It cannot condemn the Christian, for there is now no condemnation for those in Christ. Why is that? Because Christ took the condemnation, not because of some magical pixie dust that is applied to believers when they are converted. The Law is a measure for the Christian. The Law ought to be a delight for the Christian. The Law serves as a means unto holiness (not perfectionism, mind you). Thus, it is not the Law that is bad, but men. The Law is not a Boogey-Man.

So, as I have said before time and again here, man is justified by grace alone (sola gratia) through faith alone (sola fide) in Christ alone (soli Christo) according to Scripture alone (sola Scriptura) to the glory of God alone (soli Deo gloria). Sinners are not, I repeat, are not salvifically justified by the Law. Thus, in light of what I have written concerning justification and man’s salvation, the burden of proof is on my accuser to show wherein I have asserted any sentiment that I am living under the Law, or that I think such is somehow right, and that I am not living enough “in the Holy Spirit.”
 
He says the law of God has nothing to do with the believer and that keeping the sabbath is forbidden.

Is he making the argument that the gospel is the fulfilment of the law as per Philpot and Gadsby? From my reading of Fortner, he seems a little confused regarding the law of God. Though I am sure he lives a godly life.
 
However, there is absolutely no sense in which we keep a legal sabbath day in this age of grace.
I can't believe my eyes. Why don't we just jettison the prohibition against adultery while we're at it? I've always wanted a harem of concubines.
NO, friends and True Christians! It is our eagerness and love of keeping His commandments that identifies us as His elect.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:19
 
However, there is absolutely no sense in which we keep a legal sabbath day in this age of grace.
I can't believe my eyes. Why don't we just jettison the prohibition against adultery while we're at it? I've always wanted a harem of concubines.
NO, friends and True Christians! It is our eagerness and love of keeping His commandments that identifies us as His elect.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:19

I have yet to read from the articles provided that Fortner says anything of what you are accusing him of. Can you show me where he espouses we should live in sin? or Wantonly break the commandments of God?


He states clearly: But I must, with equal emphasis, say the believer has neither the desire nor the liberty to break the law of God in any point. We are not antinomians (Lawless or against the law) though he may lay that hidious charge against us for insisting upon our freedom from the law, even as they did against the Apostle Paul. But the law is not our principle of life.
 
All that the passage in Romans says is that Christ is the telos of the Law. That can either mean that the law is dead and those moral directives in the ten commandments are no longer binding: free love everybody! Or it can mean that Christ is the goal of the law, which is a much sounder translation in terms of Biblical Theology and Ethics.


telos can either mean goal or termination.

I dont know about this Jacob. Every time telos is used, could you imagine translating it goal? Try it I did, and it left me shaking my head

Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.(goal)

Jhn 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.(goal)

Phl 3:19 Whose end(goal) [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Note that I didn't say translate it as goal everytime. I just said, like with many Greek words, that there are other meanings as well. The meaning I suggested preserves Christians ethics, though as one noted, the harem sounds cool.
 
I certainly do not believe Mr. Fortner teaches licentious living at all. It's just hard for me to asertain where he stands on this issue. I've listened to his preaching on and off for a couple of years and he is a good brother in the Lord I believe. I do know that he outright rejects the 1689 LBCF and the WCF.
 
All that the passage in Romans says is that Christ is the telos of the Law. That can either mean that the law is dead and those moral directives in the ten commandments are no longer binding: free love everybody! Or it can mean that Christ is the goal of the law, which is a much sounder translation in terms of Biblical Theology and Ethics.


telos can either mean goal or termination.

I dont know about this Jacob. Every time telos is used, could you imagine translating it goal? Try it I did, and it left me shaking my head

Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.(goal)

Jhn 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.(goal)

Phl 3:19 Whose end(goal) [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Note that I didn't say translate it as goal everytime. I just said, like with many Greek words, that there are other meanings as well. The meaning I suggested preserves Christians ethics, though as one noted, the harem sounds cool.



Jacob, I need to find a good answer for this Christian ethics thought. I honestly do not know how to respond when I hear that. Or if not God's law then Man's law. I know it is a false dichotomy, and means very little if anything, but I cannot put my thoughts into coherent words at this time.

It is not either Sinai Law or anarchy, that I know.
 
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