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Discussion in 'Cults & World Religions' started by hhtuck, Jan 17, 2005.
This is awful!!!
Yet another example of the devil worshipping fanatical followers of Mohommedism.
...and some people say that all religions are essentially the same. They all believe in a god and they all speak of love, just in a slightly different way...
I'd be interested in reading the exchanges between Hossam Armanious and the Muzlims (if, of course, its in English). The article said it was paltalk.com, but that's not specific enough. Any ideas how we could locate the forum they debated on?
[Edited on 1-17-2005 by blhowes]
Just because a person speaks of a god and of what they consider to be love does not mean they are speaking of the God of the Bible or of God's unconditional love. Of course, all of us here know that.
Even when some Christians speak of God and love, it does not mean it's the God of the Bible or Christian love. Words and motives must be carefully evaluated.
Agreed. I'm glad you picked up on the distinction I was making when I wrote 'a god', with god in lower case.
In a sense, after thinking about it, though the various religions promote different gods, they are common in that they are works based.
Indeed, that is one of the distinction of the Chrisitan Faith, when rightly understood.
The radical muslim believes he is serving his god by killing others.
Makes me wonder if I should continue my debates with these guys. I don't hear from them as much as I used to. The guys I debate seem to be fairly civil, but they might kill me if they had the chance.
Food for Thought?
I don't know of any significant contributions the Islamic nations of the world have made in history toward the growth of civilization. Sure, they may have popped out a couple of philosophers (glorified sense knowledge), but I don't know of any (hyphenated) names in the annals of history associated with invention or achievement in the development of science, medicine, technology, etc.
Not to defend Islamic culture by any means, but we here in the West do owe the Muslims in at least two areas that I can think of.
1) Arabic numerals -- The numbers we use are Arabic in origin, not Roman.
2) The Fall of Constantinople in 1453 to the Turks was a turning point in history. Scholars fled to the West bringing with them important manuscripts which helped begin the Renaissance, which in turn, in God's Providence, lead to the Reformation. The principle of Genesis 50.20 is reflected here: "But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive." To God be the glory, for turning a Muslim conquest into the Reformation!
Overall, I do agree of course that it is in the West where the light of Scripture has illuminated men's minds that science properly understood has flourished most. And to the extent that society whether in the West or East turns from God's Word, science fails in its duty to "think God's thoughts after him" (Kepler).
Hey Andrew, I believe you are correct in citing the current system of numerals (or is it a numeric system?) used in the west as Arabic in origin. Thank goodness! Could you imagine doing multiplication or long division with Roman numerals?
Thanks for the article as well...pretty intersting and infomative. A bit excessive use of the word, "(read it for yourself, I don't want to get banned!)" in the author's referenes to the Roman Catholic Church. He could have tried, "Roman Lady of the Night," "Roman Courtesan," or really spice things up with a French spin, "Roman Demimondaine."
Yes, that word pertaining to Revelations 17.5 in connection with the Church of Rome (the historical Reformed identification of Rome with Babylon) is used a bit much in the article. That wasn't my focus and I don't want to open a (my first use of this new emoticon, cool!). But the point is, the fall of Constantinople to the Muslims in God's Providence had a direct bearing on the later Reformation for which we can all be thankful.
Speaking of the historicist interpretation, and attempting to stay within the sense of this thread, I would commend the following works by Dr. F. Nigel Lee:
Calvin on Islam: http://www.dr-fnlee.org/docs6/calvislam/calvislam.html
Luther on Islam and the Papacy: http://www.dr-fnlee.org/docs/loiatp/loiatp.html
Islam in the Bible: http://www.dr-fnlee.org/docs/iitb/iitb.html
Anyone heard any updates on that one unfortunate town (I believe it was in one of the Great Lake states) in which a local mosque won legal rights to publicly broadcast their daily prayers in open air?
Or am I just messing this story up?
Also, (I will have to find articles shortly) the Islamic world held much of the science which the west lost during the Dark Ages. The Crusades held bring much of this back and bring the western world into its renaissance. Medical achievements such as many forms of pain killers etc... were guarded in the Middle East while almost unheard of in the west. The works of Aristotle and many mathmatical works were also guarded carefully in the east so that we now have much of which might otherwise have been lost.
I recall that incident. It was in Hamtramck, Michigan (outside Detroit). I don't know the current status of the legal controversy. But it highlights the need for prayer that the hearts of American Muslims (as well as around the world) might be turned from the daemon-god Allah to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes, these things are true. Marco Polo (unlike Ibn Battuta) travelled East and brought back much that was useful to the West. It is also true that important knowledge (beer-making, for instance ) and manuscripts were held in safe-keeping by Roman Catholic and Orthodox monastaries. We are wise to humbly acknowledge that God providentially uses those outside the covenant (or erring brethren) to fulfill his plan for the good of the church. It also highlights the fact that, properly understood, all truth is God's truth, no matter what the source.
Muslims retained quite a bit of useful knowledge from the Greeks, though they never got much press for it. In terms of science and mathematics, they were way ahead of Europe. One extremeist is not a representative of an entire religion. Stop playing this off of mainstream Islam; any one who has any sense can see that this is not present in mainstream Islamic theology, and is also completely reversible on fringe "Christians." We don't all handle snakes and wear ridiculous T-shirts.
That said, it is a false religion, and their god is, in the Biblical sense, a devil. Muslims ought to believe in Christ just as all ought to do so.
[Edited on 7-2-2005 by Authorised]
Aaron, how many of those *peaceful* muslims actually feel bad for this family or would say something if they knew anything?
I pray that instead of scaring off other Christians from speaking to these ppl that it will bolden them instead. I believe this family was consistant and willing, come what may. I used to stay awake on nights my husband went on the street (I don't mean normal streets either) with worry for him. He's even heard guns cocked in wait for him. He would continue walking that very same direction. Nothing has happened to date. For each man time is already appointed by God. I feel for the extended members of this family. But I pray that their witness and their strength will be a witness to them.
Reminds me of the story about a man walking along and he sees the angel of death looking with surprise at him. The man is so frightened he packs some belongings and leaves that hour for another town miles away. The reason the angel was surprised was because he had a appointment with the man in the other town that night.
Seriously, though, I wonder how anyone can know whether an activity is trying to test God. Most people would not walk between two gangs shooting at each other but how does a person know?
I will remember your husband in my prayers, Colleen.
If you want to see something from mainstream Islam (at least one current), see this article:
This was just in the 20th century. It is also dishertening to see reactions to 9/11 in many muslim countries. large percentages of people approved of it and rejoiced. The Frontline piece mentioned this too, but it has been noted by several outlets.
[Edited on 2-8-2005 by Scott]
Thank you, Gerry. Btw, though I pray for him, I no longer worry.