James White on ShepCon

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A.Joseph

Puritan Board Sophomore
I just wanted to apologize if my views were taken in the worst way on the P&P thread, my point is that men like Duncan, Dever, and Mohler are good men who in their minds and hearts hold a proper view on the modern social justice movement (and the language applied) but for some reason, maybe political,are being forced to capitulate to this agenda, which will ultimately have grave consequences for the Christian Church.

I want to change topic of previous thread, which I’m sorry if I inadvertently derailed (that was not my intent, honestly!) to emphasize this James White video commentary on ShepCon and ask why are these men so defensive and unwilling to have an open discussion? I guess it’s because they are so deeply conflicted and maybe have to answer to other vested interests? It was truly awkward and somewhat alarming
 
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A.Joseph

Puritan Board Sophomore
Was that a sorry-not sorry? You want to apologize if -in your perception- other people took you less charitably than they should have? :lol:
Not quite, I think I was too hard on Mohler, Duncan and Dever and I’m truly sorry that some were offended and yet, these men seem frustrated with having to take a HARD stand against neo/cultural Marxism, even though they personally disagree with it..... I believe that is worth further discussion as it’s also effecting the PCA and according to this video the OPC....

But I did say that Mohler, Duncan and Dever are good men.... I wanted to clarify that. If there is anything further in which I must repent I will
 
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JimmyH

Puritan Board Junior
I watched the above video presentation after reading the aforementioned thread. I thought it was an interesting overview of what took place. JW's frequent interruptions, once he replayed the Q&A sessions with Dr Mohler etc, were sort of annoying, but his commentary was interesting. In the end I agreed with Dr Mohler's reaction that he felt he was being put on the spot. I thought he handled it well.
 

A.Joseph

Puritan Board Sophomore
I watched the above video presentation after reading the aforementioned thread. I thought it was an interesting overview of what took place. JW's frequent interruptions, once he replayed the Q&A sessions with Dr Mohler etc, were sort of annoying, but his commentary was interesting. In the end I agreed with Dr Mohler's reaction that he felt he was being put on the spot. I thought he handled it well.
Do you agree with White that Mohler has to tread very carefully in these waters? Is his witness ultimately compromised by political powers and professional relationships? This isn’t politics, or secondary matters.... aren’t the essentials of faith and doctrine at stake? Can’t he demonstratively condemn his current associations who are going down this road or must he toe a line? And to what end? Can’t he stand his ground and if he is removed somehow so be it... ? I say stand your ground for biblical truth and if it be Gods will he will remain exactly where he is, despite forces trying to tear him down
 

A.Joseph

Puritan Board Sophomore
White astutely notes that SB theological seminary is now teaching things that Jim Wallis & Sojournors taught almost 2 decades prior.....

You can say that Wallis has been on the right side of issues relating to race but look at all that comes with it, including cultural Marxism which is a threat to sound doctrine....

Progress?
 

JimmyH

Puritan Board Junior
Do you agree with White that Mohler has to tread very carefully in these waters? Is his witness ultimately compromised by political powers and professional relationships? This isn’t politics, or secondary matters.... aren’t the essentials of faith and doctrine at stake? Can’t he demonstratively condemn his current associations who are going down this road or must he toe a line? And to what end? Can’t he stand his ground and if he is removed somehow so be it... ? I say stand your ground for biblical truth and if it be Gods will he will remain exactly where he is, despite forces trying to tear him down
Well I agree with JW that Dr Mohler is between a rock and a hard place. Nowadays any comment in social media has to be considered before it is posted on twitter or wherever ... how much more for the head of a seminary. Of course he should stand for the faith, and as he said, he has been doing so for 30 years. His daily briefing program is proof of that.
 

A.Joseph

Puritan Board Sophomore
Well I agree with JW that Dr Mohler is between a rock and a hard place. Nowadays any comment in social media has to be considered before it is posted on twitter or wherever ... how much more for the head of a seminary. Of course he should stand for the faith, and as he said, he has been doing so for 30 years. His daily briefing program is proof of that.
Yes, I’m sure of that.... and I’m sure he will be compelled to walk away from his position if things continue to go this way. But he should continue to be transparent about that, the challenges and how to combat aspects of these ideologies that are unbiblical and have no place in seminary
 

A.Joseph

Puritan Board Sophomore
Well I agree with JW that Dr Mohler is between a rock and a hard place. Nowadays any comment in social media has to be considered before it is posted on twitter or wherever ... how much more for the head of a seminary. Of course he should stand for the faith, and as he said, he has been doing so for 30 years. His daily briefing program is proof of that.
Can you just rewatch the last 12 minutes cause that left me stymied... what is Mohler afraid of? Why won’t he talk??? There’s a huge elephant in the room.... What is the risk if he remains silent? Doesn’t he owe it to the concerned faithful in the audience to directly respond to what PJ asked him at the end there?
 

A.Joseph

Puritan Board Sophomore
How about questioning the underlying purpose of these statements in the first place? https://reformedbrotherhood.com/trb-127-the-statement-on-social-justice-and-the-gospel/

I do not agree with all, for instance I did not agree with Mohler's "insulted you did not ask my opinion" as being a valid reason to reject the statement. It struck me as him considering himself an expert that others should defer to.
I don’t think the statement is the issue here.... the issue is biblical orthodoxy being derailed by Jim Wallis and sojourners, cultural Marxism, critical race theory and liberation theology.... we have to remain clear sighted on these issues at hand here....


“In our homes and in our churches, we must answer the question: “What should white Christians and white churches do in the Trump era?” Repent of the sin of racism. ..our practices and policies of racism.

The only answer to the racial divide among Christians — evangelicals in particular — is to go much deeper into what racial equity and healing will require. …studying racism in congregation after congregation, and especially between congregations across racial lines, could be a fundamental building block for genuine racial reconciliation in America.” - Jim Wallis
 
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A.Joseph

Puritan Board Sophomore
From Sojourners website.... (and also featured at TGC) Jemar Tisby... so we have TGC forwarding the same agenda as Jim Wallis snd Sojo... pretty sad state of affairs.
the white church must join in the work of decolonizing, not because it’s suddenly become popular, but because it’s the right thing to do.

So this Lent, I urge you to:

  • Create a book club.
  • Gather with a few friends over coffee and talk through ideas of decolonization.
  • Challenge yourself at home and in the workplace to fight toxic stereotypes.
  • Re-educate yourself about the history of the United States and the church’s role in empire.
  • Grieve, and don’t be afraid of what the wilderness might show you.
Books are always a great place to begin the journey.

1. The Color of Compromise: The Truth about the American Church’s Complicity in Racism by Jemar Tisby

Decolonize the way you think about church history by examining the church’s complicity in racism through this powerful book.

We are all having conversations about the origins of the United States and about how the church came to be so mixed up with empire. Jemar Tisby walks us through American history and shows us how urgent it is that we are honest about who we are and who we should be in the future as we fight for a better church that roots out white supremacy and racism within its own institutions.
https://sojo.net/articles/decolonize-your-faith-lent-reading-list

upload_2019-3-14_22-13-27.jpeg

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/profile/jemar-tisby/
 
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ZackF

Puritan Board Graduate
From Sojourners website.... (and also featured at TGC) Jemar Tisby... so we have TGC forwarding the same agenda as Jim Wallis snd Sojo... pretty sad state of affairs.

https://sojo.net/articles/decolonize-your-faith-lent-reading-list

View attachment 5985

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/profile/jemar-tisby/
Respectfully, you're all over the place here. Didn't you create this thread over White's commentary on the Shepherd's Conference?

I doubt Wallis has ever been quoted favorably on the PB.

Tisby has become problematic and that is well know.

TGC is an aggregation of all kinds of people. While I don't carry a banner for the organization as a whole it doesn't follow that if a Sojournesr blogger recommends Tisby book and Tisby has ties to TGC. Ergo, Sojourners = T4G. What is your point if I may ask?
 

A.Joseph

Puritan Board Sophomore
Respectfully, you're all over the place here. Didn't you create this thread over White's commentary on the Shepherd's Conference?

I doubt Wallis has ever been quoted favorably on the PB.

Tisby has become problematic and that is well know.

TGC is an aggregation of all kinds of people. While I don't carry a banner for the organization as a whole it doesn't follow that if a Sojournesr blogger recommends Tisby book and Tisby has ties to TGC. Ergo, Sojourners = T4G. What is your point if I may ask?
I’m not really all over the place actually, watch the last 12 minutes of White’s video and the pieces will all come together brother... Unless you don’t see a problem....

Actually the last 16 minutes
 

A.Joseph

Puritan Board Sophomore
Of course he should stand for the faith, and as he said, he has been doing so for 30 years. His daily briefing program is proof of that.
so Jimmy, what good is it if Mohler will call out threats to sound doctrine that exists in far off liberal camps like Jim Wallis & Sojo when he is going to remain silent as soon as it hits his own backyard?... shouldnt he be hysterical at this point, but instead he’s wilting or turning on those who have been in his corner and of like mind all this time. He owes it to them and more improtantly to the One he serves to be completely transparent on what the issues are and how they have infected even the most conservative denominations and seminaries. He is in a perfect position to do so and if he fails to do so, those on the right side of biblical orthodoxy will abandon him because they will be under the impression that he has abandoned sound doctrine, both in word and deed, as the tares are growing right under his feet
 

Kinghezy

Puritan Board Sophomore
I don’t think the statement is the issue here....
Depends what you mean by ''the issue". Was the whole discussion not started because some men signing the statement and some men not? If we are confessionalists, do we have to be compelled to sign every conservative statement that comes up?
 

A.Joseph

Puritan Board Sophomore
Depends what you mean by ''the issue". Was the whole discussion not started because some men signing the statement and some men not? If we are confessionalists, do we have to be compelled to sign every conservative statement that comes up?
No, of course not. I agree with you there
 

J.L. Allen

Puritan Board Freshman
Depends what you mean by ''the issue". Was the whole discussion not started because some men signing the statement and some men not? If we are confessionalists, do we have to be compelled to sign every conservative statement that comes up?
We are not compelled to sign every conservative statement. However, when we confessional Christians start adopting anti-biblical framework and minimize our confession, we amplify the strong desire of conservative brothers and sisters to adopt measures to draw a line in the sand showing those who are wayward to be on the out of fundamental beliefs. The modernist controversy isn’t on select doctrines yet but on an overall framework that jeopardizes how well we can hold to fundamental doctrines. Harmartiology, anthropology, and the purpose of redemption are damaged first.
 

OPC'n

Puritan Board Doctor
I think this is a great answer from Al Mohler on social justice which I'm sure isn't a completely exhaustive answer since it's a Q&A session on a variety of subjects. Maybe watch this before throwing him to the dogs.

 

A.Joseph

Puritan Board Sophomore
I think this is a great answer from Al Mohler on social justice which I'm sure isn't a completely exhaustive answer since it's a Q&A session on a variety of subjects. Maybe watch this before throwing him to the dogs.

How are we throwing him to the dogs? He holds the right position on these matters, the whole point is he will call out those who wrongfully confuse the gospel for social justice except when it starts infecting his own circles. Nobody here has a personal bias against him, he may be in a more vulnerable position. The fact is there is no nuanced way to combat error no matter how politically correct it may seem.... the longer he postures the harder the battle will be. I’m rooting for him that his bold stand comes sooner than later.... those he are up against are not looking for racial sensitivity, they are seeking to annihilate gospel truth. You do realize there is a great spiritual war that is occurring behind the scenes and every church and denomination is in the crosshairs.... I don’t think I’m exaggerating in even the slightest. This is much bigger than Mohler
 

KMK

Administrator
Staff member
but for some reason, maybe political,are being forced to capitulate to this agenda, which will ultimately have grave consequences for the Christian Church.

I want to change topic of previous thread
If you wanted to change the subject, why did you include the above?

This thread is all over the place.

If you want to know why these men say (or don't say) certain things, contact them directly instead hazarding guesses.

Thread closed.
 
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