I'm afraid I must disagree with Ginny's statement:
I think Job 19:25-27 is clear about what Job understood in regard to the resurrection:
This is not only my statement but the statements of our reformed forefathers, too. Read what some of them said regarding this passage:
The Westminster Annotation and Commentary on the Whole Bible written by some of the Westminster Divines and other Puritans says in Vol 2 on Job 19:25:
'For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: I have appealed to men present and to come: but if they should all prove corrupt, and take your part against me, yet I know there is a general judgment to come in which I shall be cleared. He sets out the doctrine of the Resurrection largely 1. By the excellent qualities of his Saviour and Judge, that He is living and shall abide, when others are in the dust, and shall be the Judge in the last and solemn judgment, in this verse. 2. From the effects of death, which brings a man very low, and consumes his skin, and pierces through his flesh, yet Christ will raise him again, v 16. 3. From the effects of the Resurrection, which will restore his own flesh to him again, and those eyes he now hath, to look on Christ at the last day, though for a time he lie in the grave, as one swallowed up by death, v 27.. The sum of this verse is as if he had said, "Lest haply ye imagine that because I have no hope of this life, that therefore I have none of the life to come neither; I tell you that I know that he by whom I shall be redeeemed is immortal, who as he was before this dust, as being the creator of it, so shall he not be dissolved with it, but remain after it is dissolved, and brought to nothing.'....
Jamison, Fausset and Brown says of this passage:
25. redeemer--UMBREIT and others understand this and Job 19:26, of God appearing as Job's avenger before his death, when his body would be wasted to a skeleton. But Job uniformly despairs of restoration and vindication of his cause in this life (Job 17:15, 16). One hope alone was left, which the Spirit revealed--a vindication in a future life: it would be no full vindication if his soul alone were to be happy without the body, as some explain (Job 19:26) "out of the flesh." It was his body that had chiefly suffered: the resurrection of his body, therefore, alone could vindicate his cause: to see God with his own eyes, and in a renovated body (Job 19:27), would disprove the imputation of guilt cast on him because of the sufferings of his present body. That this truth is not further dwelt on by Job, or noticed by his friends, only shows that it was with him a bright passing glimpse of Old Testament hope, rather than the steady light of Gospel assurance; with us this passage has a definite clearness, which it had not in his mind (see on Job 21:30). The idea in "redeemer" with Job is Vindicator (Job 16:19; Nu 35:27), redressing his wrongs; also including at least with us, and probably with him, the idea of the predicted Bruiser of the serpent's head. Tradition would inform him of the prediction. FOSTER shows that the fall by the serpent is represented perfectly on the temple of Osiris at Philæ; and the resurrection on the tomb of the Egyptian Mycerinus, dating four thousand years back. Job's sacrifices imply sense of sin and need of atonement. Satan was the injurer of Job's body; Jesus Christ his Vindicator, the Living One who giveth life (Joh 5:21, 26).
Matthew Henry says:
In all the conferences between Job and his friends we do not find any more weighty and considerable lines than these; would one have expected it? Here is much both of Christ and heaven in these verses: and he that said such things as these declared plainly that he sought the better country, that is, the heavenly; as the patriarchs of that age did, Heb. xi. 14. We have here Job's creed, or confession of faith. His belief in God the Father Almighty, the Maker of heaven and earth, and the principles of natural religion, he had often professed: but here we find him no stranger to revealed religion; though the revelation of the promised Seed, and the promised inheritance, was then discerned only like the dawning of the day, yet Job was taught of God to believe in a living Redeemer, and to look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, for of these, doubtless, he must be understood to speak. These were the things he comforted himself with the expectation of, and not a deliverance from his trouble or a revival of his happiness in this world, as some would understand him; for besides that the expressions he here uses, of the Redeemer's standing at the latter day upon the earth, of his seeing God, and seeing him for himself, are wretchedly forced if they be understood of any temporal deliverance, it is very plain that he had no expectation at all of his return to a prosperous condition in this world. He had just now said that his way was fenced up, (v. 8) and his hope removed like a tree, v. 10. Nay, and after this he expressed his despair of any comfort in this life, ch. xxiii. 8, 9; xxx. 23. So that we must necessarily understand him of the redemption of his soul from the power of the grave, and his reception to glory, which is spoken of, Ps. xlix. 15. We have reason to think that Job was just now under an extraordinary impulse of the blessed Spirit, which raised him above himself, gave him light, and gave him utterance, even to his own surprise. And some observe that, after this, we do not find Job's discourses such passionate, peevish, unbecoming, complaints of God and his providence as we have before met with: this hope quieted his spirit, stilled the storm and, having here cast anchor within the veil, his mind was kept steady from this time forward......
(To read more from Matthew Henry's lengthy commentary on this passage go to.....
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/henry/mhc3.Job.xx.html)
And I could provide more, but will leave the commentaries at that, as you can look them up and read them for yourself if you are interested....
"I'm afraid I must also quibble over Ginny's citation of Thomas Brooks. The 1665 piece does, indeed, demonstrate that Thomas Brooks believed in the resurrection, and may well serve to indicate that Christianity in the 17th century held a firm belief in the afterlife. This is all well and good, but it would be anachronistic to say that any of it has significance for Job, who, of course, knew nothing of Thomas Brooks.
I did not include Thomas Brooks' quote to prove anything about Job's view of death, but to to try to show to 'you' that death is not the casting away of that which God deems to be unworthy of salvaging or preserving. In the case of the martyrs who have died for the cause of Christ in the past generations; do you think they were considered unworthy of preserving as to the reason God allowed them to be taken, or was it a glorious way of transferring them from this temporal life, directly into His presence? Was it a blessing, or a punishment? My Mom passed away in June, and I have spent much time contemplating death and the afterlife this summer, and I cannot see death in any way less than an ushering into the presence of God out of this sinfully corrupted world in which we live. As saddened as I am of losing her presence with me on earth, I rejoice that she is now free from all the trials and pains of this life, and is reunited with all her family that has gone on before, but most importantly with her Lord where she is rejoicing uninhibited around the throne of her God and Saviour. Death to me has no sting, but to me is a gain, as Paul spoke of in Philippians:
Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
I just felt your terms of 'unsalvagable', and 'unworthy of preserving' in regards to the death of Job's children to being offensive when speaking of the those whom God has chosen to take to be with him, rather than allow to remain on earth. I think your view of Job would change if you did not see death as a punishment and a curse, but rather as a mercy, and a blessing. That is the reason I included Thomas Brooks' quote in my previous email, not for any relation to Job per se.
"So now I hope that readers will understand why I find Job so disturbing, and why I think we do ourselves a disservice when we neither recognize the full extent of Job's suffering nor sympathize with his complaint against God. To the extent that we engage in such readings, we rob Job of its power and importance.
Forgive me if I have come across as indicating that I believe Job's sufferings were not of some of the highest level known to man. It is for this reason that I believe his trials and his patience has been spoken of through all the generations since his time. However, having said that, I do not believe that Job was left without a hope of a resurrection, of a vindication of his sufferings, nor do I believe that he continued his complaint against God once God spoke with Him and put everything into perspective for him. We would do well to follow the example of Job, and learn to sit in the presence of God when we face dire trials and temptations rather than railing at the providences that He has dealt upon us - and I am speaking to myself here more than to anyone else.
Job 42:1-6 1 ¶ Then Job answered the LORD, and said, I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
Job had stopped complaining and was no longer pleading that his afflictions were too hard to bear. He was repenting, and abhoring himself for his attitude. I believe we have to take the entire book in context and read the progress of where Job started at, and where he ended, not just single out the middle parts where he complains against the trials that were exceedingly hard to bear.
We would do well to put our hands over our mouth as Job did in ch 40:
1 ¶ Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said, 2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it. 3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said, 4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth. 5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.
May God give us grace to learn the exceedingly hard, and painful, yet valuable lessons that are in the book of Job for our edification.