Job and the Dinosaurs

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Peairtach

Puritan Board Doctor
15"Behold, Behemoth,
which I made as I made you;
he eats grass like an ox.
16Behold, his strength in his loins,
and his power in the muscles of his belly.
17He makes his tail stiff like a cedar;
the sinews of his thighs are knit together.
18His bones are tubes of bronze,
his limbs like bars of iron.

19"He is the first of the works of God;
let him who made him bring near his sword!
20For the mountains yield food for him
where all the wild beasts play.
21Under the lotus plants he lies,
in the shelter of the reeds and in the marsh.
22For his shade the lotus trees cover him;
the willows of the brook surround him.
23Behold, if the river is turbulent he is not frightened;
he is confident though Jordan rushes against his mouth.
24Can one take him by his eyes,
or pierce his nose with a snare? (Job 40:15-24, ESV)
1 "Can you draw out Leviathan with a fishhook
or press down his tongue with a cord?
2Can you put a rope in his nose
or pierce his jaw with a hook?
3Will he make many pleas to you?
Will he speak to you soft words?
4Will he make a covenant with you
to take him for your servant forever?
5Will you play with him as with a bird,
or will you put him on a leash for your girls?
6Will traders bargain over him?
Will they divide him up among the merchants?
7Can you fill his skin with harpoons
or his head with fishing spears?
8Lay your hands on him;
remember the battle—you will not do it again!
9 Behold, the hope of a man is false;
he is laid low even at the sight of him.
10No one is so fierce that he dares to stir him up.
Who then is he who can stand before me?
11 Who has first given to me, that I should repay him?
Whatever is under the whole heaven is mine.

12"I will not keep silence concerning his limbs,
or his mighty strength, or his goodly frame.
13Who can strip off his outer garment?
Who would come near him with a bridle?
14Who can open the doors of his face?
Around his teeth is terror.
15His back is made of rows of shields,
shut up closely as with a seal.
16One is so near to another
that no air can come between them.
17They are joined one to another;
they clasp each other and cannot be separated.
18His sneezings flash forth light,
and his eyes are like the eyelids of the dawn.
19Out of his mouth go flaming torches;
sparks of fire leap forth.
20Out of his nostrils comes forth smoke,
as from a boiling pot and burning rushes.
21His breath kindles coals,
and a flame comes forth from his mouth.
22In his neck abides strength,
and terror dances before him.
23The folds of his flesh stick together,
firmly cast on him and immovable.
24His heart is hard as a stone,
hard as the lower millstone.
25When he raises himself up the mighty are afraid;
at the crashing they are beside themselves.
26Though the sword reaches him, it does not avail,
nor the spear, the dart, or the javelin.
27He counts iron as straw,
and bronze as rotten wood.
28The arrow cannot make him flee;
for him sling stones are turned to stubble.
29Clubs are counted as stubble;
he laughs at the rattle of javelins.
30His underparts are like sharp potsherds;
he spreads himself like a threshing sledge on the mire.
31He makes the deep boil like a pot;
he makes the sea like a pot of ointment.
32Behind him he leaves a shining wake;
one would think the deep to be white-haired.
33On earth there is not his like,
a creature without fear.
34He sees everything that is high;
he is king over all the sons of pride." (Job 41;1-34)
This is useful evidence of the existence of dinosaurs in the time of Job.

18His sneezings flash forth light,
and his eyes are like the eyelids of the dawn.
19Out of his mouth go flaming torches;
sparks of fire leap forth.
20Out of his nostrils comes forth smoke,
as from a boiling pot and burning rushes.
21His breath kindles coals,
and a flame comes forth from his mouth.
But verses 18-21 would necessitate an apologetic within an apologetic on behalf of dragon-like dinosaurs having existed at one time. Either these words are to be taken non-literally, which seems unlikely in the context, or there were at one time creatures that could do this i.e. breath fire.

If these words regarding fire-breathing weren't there, it would be a better apologetic for the co-existence of dinosaurs and man, at least according to our current state of knowledge/perception of, dinosaurs and dragons.
 

Edward

Puritanboard Commissioner
Why should one be willing to make assumptions about the physiology of dinosaurs when there is no evidence contrary to scripture? They could easily contained reservoirs of methane gas (see modern day sheep for methane producing engines) so the only question would be a method of ignition. And there is no scientific evidence that there wasn't such a mechanism. So I'm unwilling to assume that these passages can't be taken literally. And later stories of dragons were either made from the whole cloth, or would appear to reference these animals.
 

LawrenceU

Puritan Board Doctor
I have read articles from non-creationist paleontologists who have hypothesised that some of the large herbivorous dinosaurs may have very well ignited methane gas through either vents in the skull, nostrils, or orally. This was in pre-internet days. I have a photo copy of the article somewhere in the boxes in my attic. (Oh, for a study again. . . .)
 

goodnews

Puritan Board Freshman
There's no reason not to take the descriptions literally. And history and observed phenomena today only strengthen what I'm saying. It's difficult to explain why so many ancient civilizations (many aren't actually that ancient) have dragon myths without concluding that dragons indeed existed during man's history. And, most of these ancient civilizations probably had no contact with one another making the likelihood of the recent existence of these creatures very likely. Also, there are a couple of creatures living today (one is the bomardier (sp?) beetle) who use streams of noxious gas as defense mechanisms.
 

Peairtach

Puritan Board Doctor
I have read articles from non-creationist paleontologists who have hypothesised that some of the large herbivorous dinosaurs may have very well ignited methane gas through either vents in the skull, nostrils, or orally. This was in pre-internet days. I have a photo copy of the article somewhere in the boxes in my attic. (Oh, for a study again. . . .)
Well it's interesting that it is not just a belief of some creationists.

It still means that citing the passage as evidence of dinosaurs is not enough. You have to persuade people that there were fire-breathing dinosaurs.
 
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