John Hagee: Jesus Did NOT Come to be the Messiah

Discussion in 'Cults & World Religions' started by Dr Mike Kear, Nov 8, 2007.

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  1. shackleton

    shackleton Puritan Board Junior

    Is he confusing Messiah with king? As in Jesus did not come at that time to set himself up as king? Or is he twisitng this to mean what he wants it to mean?
     
  2. SoCalReformed

    SoCalReformed Puritan Board Freshman

    It's past time that deceivers such as Hagee be exposed. Those, such as Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn, are also flat-out heretics.
     
  3. toddpedlar

    toddpedlar Iron Dramatist

    I'd say the latter, no question. Hagee is a heretic of the worst kind, whose trajectory, as already has been noted, is taking him into Judaism. What ultimately is the cause is his unbelief - can it be anything other than that? He, like Demas, has loved another, and has departed. We need to be praying for the man; as far as I can tell he's on an express train bound for hell.
     
  4. Anton Bruckner

    Anton Bruckner Puritan Board Professor

    brethren Haggee is an example of what happens when Churches are borne out of entrepreneurship. ("One man decides to start a church, where he is the end of all things that concerns that church, even doctrine").

    This is why proper church government is necessary, with a board of elders that are actually endowed with power to enforce and discipline according to a system of beliefs (Creed and Church Constitution).

    But like I said, Haggee is his church, therefore he has the power of a despot and a tyrrant, and not that of a servant of God, and as such he wields his power as a tyrrant and a despot by willingly using his pulpit to blaspheme Jesus because of his political relationships.
     
  5. BobVigneault

    BobVigneault Bawberator

    I've watched this over and over this week. I worked very hard to build a rational critique of Mr. Hagee's ministry and revelations. I was going to make a list of why no believer should follow him or give him credence. It really all come down to one premise:

    John Hagee is a BIG FAT LIAR!
     
  6. Dr Mike Kear

    Dr Mike Kear Puritan Board Freshman

    My sister, on hearing about this, brought up Peter's confession in Matthew 16:16-17. "Simon Peter answered and said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' Jesus answered and said to him, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.'"

    Just think, if Hagee is right, then God lied to Peter. And Jesus backed up the lie. Wow. If that isn't blasphemy, then I don't know what is.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2007
  7. calgal

    calgal Puritan Board Graduate

    :barfy: I don't think he will be audited but he sure is dancing quickly down the road to hell. :( And that is really tragic to see in any unbeliever.
     
  8. caddy

    caddy Puritan Board Senior

    A friend sent this back to me when He emailed Hagge's Group. This is how they replied. Discuss please:

    We received an inquiry from you on a quote from Pastor’s new book “In Defense of Israel”. Accept our apologies for the delay in contacting you. Pastor has written a response to answer your concerns.
    ]We thank you for taking the time to contact us. May you and your family be blessed in all you do.


    Jesus: MESSIAH OR SAVIOR?​


    Many Christians have constructed a catch 22 concerning Jesus as Messiah. The catch 22 is this:
    "Jesus came to be Messiah but because the Jews rejected Him as Messiah He had to go to the cross, hence the Jews are the Christ Killers."

    Fact: According to Webster's Dictionary the word "Messiah" means "the expected king who delivers from oppressors." A Messiah is one who rules and reigns over a given people.

    Fact: The God of the Bible is absolutely sovereign! That means He is in control of everything in heaven and on earth all the time. If God is not sovereign; He can't be God.

    Question: What was God's Sovereign will for Jesus Christ from the foundations of the earth?

    Revelation 13:8 reads that Jesus Christ was the "Lamb of God slain from the foundations of the world." This verse says it was God's Sovereign plan for Jesus to die as Savior before the world was created in Genesis 1:1.

    Most people confuse the role of "Messiah" and "Savior." To be Messiah you must live. To rule and reign you must live. Jesus came to die and be the Savior of every person on earth.

    THERE IS NO DUAL COVENANT! The Bible says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

    Jesus Himself stated in Mark 14:8, Luke 24:46 and Mark 10:33-34 that He had come to die for the sins of the world as Savior. Again, you must live to be Messiah. You cannot be both Messiah and Savior!

    John the Baptist introduced Jesus as the "Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29). The only thing a lamb can do is to be slaughtered as a sin offering.

    Fact: Jesus claimed to be Savior several times in the Bible. He never claimed to be Messiah to the Jewish people. In John 4 Jesus told the woman at the well, a Gentile, who He was, knowing the Jews and Samaritans had nothing to do with each other. I go into this in great detail in my latest book, "In Defense of Israel."

    Fact: Jesus repeatedly in His ministry told His Disciples and followers to "tell no one" about His supernatural accomplishments. If Jesus wanted to be Messiah by popular demand, He would have wanted His supernatural exploits to be told by everyone to spread His popularity.

    Sixty-four times in the four Gospels Jesus instructed those who were excited about His being the Messiah to "tell no one." He refused the role. He never promised to be Messiah. The Jews did not reject Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who refused to be the reigning Messiah because it was God's Sovereign will for Him to die on the cross.

    Fact: Bible proof that Jesus did not come to be Messiah is found in Matthew 26:26-30 where Jesus, a Jewish Rabbi, was celebrating Passover with His 12 Disciples in what Christians call "The Lord's Supper."

    In the Passover there are five cups of wine that Jesus and His Disciples would drink together. These five cups have been and still are celebrated by observant Jews who keep the Passover.

    The fifth cup is the Messiah's Cup. Luke 26:28, Jesus claims to be the Savior of the world by saying, "For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sin."

    In the next verse, Luke 26:29, Jesus rejects the Messiah's Cup saying, "But I say unto you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's Kingdom."

    Jesus rejected the Messiah's Cup because He knew He was about to die. He promised His Disciples that He would drink the Messiah's Cup when He returns to earth the second time as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

    Fact: If an Almighty and Sovereign God sent His Son into the world the first time to be Messiah...God failed! The truth is, God cannot fail...never.
    Jesus was sent to the earth the first time to die as the Lamb of God.

    I trust this simple explanation will clarify any concerns you might have concerning Jesus the Messiah and Jesus the Savior. Let us prepare for the soon coming of King Jesus, our Deliverer and Lord of Lords. It will be very soon!
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2007
  9. Stephen

    Stephen Puritan Board Junior

    It will be interesting to see if the Assemblies of God bring discipline against this heretic, like they did against the Bakers & Swaggert. Of course he could go independent, take his congregation and move to a jungle and have a communion service. Beware of false prophets (profits) who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15). There is a sucker born every day.
     
  10. J. David Kear

    J. David Kear Puritan Board Freshman

    Hagee is propagating a false dichotomy.

    What Bible has a Luke chapter 26? (This could indicate a problem)

    Hello? Is he saying that Jesus is not currently living and reigning?
     
  11. Richard King

    Richard King Puritan Board Senior

    "post removed"
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2007
  12. caddy

    caddy Puritan Board Senior

    I think most everything he says presents a problem. ;)
     
  13. MrMerlin777

    MrMerlin777 Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Hagee is simply following his extreem form of dispensationalism to it's logical conclusion.

    Heresy, Yes! Suprising, No!
     
  14. DMcFadden

    DMcFadden Puritanboard Commissioner

    On August 26, 1960, Hagee married Martha E Hagee. They had two children, Christopher and Tish. In October 1966, Hagee founded Trinity Church in San Antonio, Texas. Hagee resigned his pastorate in May 1975. Hagee and his wife divorced in September 1975. On Mother's Day of 1975, Hagee founded Castle Hills Assembly, later known as the Church of Castle Hills. On April 12, 1976, Hagee married Diana M. Castro, a 24-year-old former congregant at Trinity Church. Hagee's three children with his second wife Diana Castro Hagee are Christina, Matthew and Sandy. Matthew is working on his Master's Degree in Theology and is the Associate Pastor of Cornerstone Church
     
  15. JasonGoodwin

    JasonGoodwin Puritan Board Sophomore

    Exactly!!!
     
  16. JasonGoodwin

    JasonGoodwin Puritan Board Sophomore

    I'm not an expert in exegesis, but even your simple layman fed with an ounce of discernment ought to know that this is some of the worst exegesis coming from a "conservative" minister -- and that's putting it kindly.

    Perhaps someone should remind him of Galatians 1:6-10

    Oh, BTW. In one year, Hagee raked in close to US$1M in compensation. See this: Freegoodnews.com: Reformation: Christian Scum and Pastor John Hagee of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio
     
  17. Richard King

    Richard King Puritan Board Senior


    My brief and terse summary was based on the explanation given by an elder who was at Trinity Church back when this was going on.
    He says there was a period of attempted counsel from leaders in the church before this pastor actually left.
    Since I don't have permission to quote his name I will withdraw my post.
     
  18. Kevin

    Kevin Puritan Board Doctor

    This just makes me feel sad. I always knew that JH was a bit nutty, but this kind of apostasy...

    Let us pray for those elect who are influenced by his ministry, that God will keep them from error.
     
  19. JasonGoodwin

    JasonGoodwin Puritan Board Sophomore

    I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier about John Hagee. Would I be too far off the mark to call him a Modalist?

    Dr. Matt and others, would you agree?:scholar:
     
  20. JoeRe4mer

    JoeRe4mer Puritan Board Freshman

    Its hard to say just from that if he is or is not a Modalist. Basically modern Modalists (Oneness Pentecostals) and others say that Jesus IS the Father. It appears that John Hagee is saying that Jesus is NOT the Messiah which is just as bad, but I do think he would probably recognize the distinct person hood of Christ, which Modalists fundamentally deny.
    At any rate he is still going to :mad: hell if he does not repent of this heresy.
     
  21. Calvin'scuz

    Calvin'scuz Puritan Board Freshman

    The really sad part about this is that many of his flock will just accept what he says. They'll sit there and nod and amen him to death while they're underlining in their bibles. They don't think for themselves and very few will check his statements against Scripture. My brother and sister in law fall for this stuff. They feel that if they check out his teaching with an eye for the truth, they are "doubting God's anointed." I'm sick of hearing how all these Charismatics are "anointed men/women of God" while they just keep preaching heresy. It breaks my heart one minute, and makes me furious the next. How dare they!!!:mad:
     
  22. JoeRe4mer

    JoeRe4mer Puritan Board Freshman

    I agree with you Jim. I have a very hard time understanding how so many could be lead astray by Hagee's false teachings especially in light of what the scripture says about Jesus' position as the Christ or (Messiah). I also question the standing of those who would willingly subject themselves to such teachings. Their souls are in just as much danger as his.
     
  23. CDM

    CDM Puritan Board Junior

    You have trouble understanding why a bunch of people don't believe Jesus is the Messiah? These unbelievers are being led exactly where they want to go.

    Most of the world falls in this category.
     
  24. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    Its more a matter of seeing him as denying Jesus Christ (Christ = the annointed one or messiah (??)) as the Messiah. One could believe in the Father, Son and Spirit and deny the incarnation as the Son coming as the Messiah and not be a modalist.
     
  25. Contra_Mundum

    Contra_Mundum Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger Staff Member

    I smell a Wild Boar News Podcast cooking.
     
  26. JoeRe4mer

    JoeRe4mer Puritan Board Freshman

    I do understand very well why men reject Christ. What I was trying to say is that most people who follow him claim to be Christians, yet they turn a blind eye to his teachings. I was marveling at their hypocrisy and inconsistency with the scriptures. If you saw the rest of my post I made it clear that I question their standing and I said that their souls are in danger. Perhaps understand was the wrong word to use to express my point though thanks for the correction I will be more careful with my wording next time. :cheers2:
     
  27. JasonGoodwin

    JasonGoodwin Puritan Board Sophomore

    So it could be an obviously flawed dualism.

    Whatever the classification, it's not Scriptural by any means.
     
  28. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    Not remotely Scriptural. Its not his only flaw.
     
  29. Contra_Mundum

    Contra_Mundum Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger Staff Member

    WIY-ULD BOAR!
    WIY-ULD BOAR!
    WIY-ULD BOAR!
    WIY-ULD BOAR!
    WIY-ULD BOAR!
    WIY-ULD BOAR!

    I thought a chant would be nice...
     
  30. No Longer A Libertine

    No Longer A Libertine Puritan Board Senior

    Hagee does rather look like a succulent pig now that you mention it.
     
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