John MacArthur on Beth Moore

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alexandermsmith

Puritan Board Junior
Once again John MacArthur takes the needed stand. Here are his comments on Beth Moore and the wider trends in the church, particularly the SBC, from the weekend:


Related is the news that Grace Life Church of the Shoals SBC is moving to formally disasscoate from the Southern Baptist Convention. The announcement by the minister can be found here:

https://www.gracelifeshoals.org/sermons#!/swx/pp/media_archives/203615/episode/79777

It begins around 9:30 into the video. A powerful statement on what is happening in the church today (though I don't think ministers should be addressing their congregations with their hands in their pockets). It can also be found embedded in this article about the move:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/10/20...-denomination-over-its-support-of-beth-moore/
 
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Reformed Covenanter

Cancelled Commissioner
Once again John MacArthur takes the needed stand. Here are his comments on Beth Moore and the wider trends in the church, particularly the SBC

I have just listened to that clip, thank you. While you can just hear the jeers "John MacArthur is a dispensationalist", he has often taken good stands for unpopular (biblical) opinions when others have forsaken the field of battle.
 

alexandermsmith

Puritan Board Junior
Agreed. There are major disagreements one would have with him but on issues like this he's strong and it's good to have someone of his profile making the points he does.
 

Logan

Puritan Board Junior
I'm not familiar with Beth Moore and hadn't heard about this but looking at news articles from "mainline" Christian sites, it appears many of the "woke" crowd is on the warpath already against MacArthur. He could certainly use prayer right now.
 

Chad Hutson

Puritan Board Freshman
I thank God for John MacArthur! Dispensationalism aside, he represents Evangelicalism well. He is gracious where graciousness is required, and firm and resolute when that firmness is necessary.
I was contacted yesterday by a fundamental, independent Baptist preacher about MacArthur, lauding his stance against Beth Moore and women preachers. In our neck of the woods, the independent fundamentalist Baptists don't like anyone, especially sovereign grace preachers. It was quite something to have one such preacher commending anyone outside their particular church.
EVERYONE who values conservative Christianity, regardless of flavor, needs to join the bandwagon with MacArthur and stand against this error within SBC and other denominations!
 

lynnie

Puritan Board Graduate
SBC?

I talked over 10 years ago to the woman in charge of the PCA lending library about Beth Moore. The gal who led our PCA women's meetings- her husband was an elder- adored Beth Moore. My sound doctrine pastor told me that what was so hard for him was that she got all her stuff from the PCA headquarters library...he had to ax three B.M series before she found a fourth that was more neutral and he gave in and let her use it. I ended up not attending, could not stand it.

I called the library to ask why they had an Arminian Dispensational bad teacher like B.M, and the gal in charge of the library said Beth Moore was awful and terrible doctrine and she had begged and pleaded with those in PCA authority to remove her, but they wouldn't because she is such a huge library money maker for them. ( It appears to be an annual flat fee today, back then I think you paid as you rented).

I took a glance, which is bad for my PCA cynical streak, and there she is : https://pcacdm.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Video_Library_Catalog_2019.pdf

I didn't feel like looking carefully at all 88 pages, but you can get your multi Beth Moore video series on pages 8,14, 26, and 27 which has 2 of them.

You can also get a few at least by Patricia Shirier, and learn to hear from God one on one in mysticism and all that jazz. Look her up under something like false teaching if you want to learn more.

This is the PCA folks, so I don't see how anybody can be surprised by the SBC, which has never professed to be as confessional as the PCA if I am not mistaken.

Pray for revival. I don't understand and I wish it was different. Glad to see a prominent voice speaking up.
 

Chad Hutson

Puritan Board Freshman
because she is such a huge library money maker for them.
Aaaaand… there you have the motivation behind the madness! Money, plain and simple. I would love to know who was backing her financially to begin with, who negotiated her deals, etc. This is why we need to buy our books only from certain publishing companies and avoid the "big boys" who only look at the profit motive. (I wish Christian Book Distributors would go out of business, or at least drop my address from their mailing list!) What disgusting dribble is offered through these companies.
I'm sad to hear that about the PCA. It seems that we're coming to the point that local associations are the only alternative for our churches. We are unaffiliated, not by choice, but by necessity. As "reforming" Baptists, what options are available to us? The denominations are driven by money as well and it seems the only controversy they wish to court is against their conservative members. Really takes courage to be applauded by the majority of the godless secularists in our nation. God help us!
 

Susan777

Puritan Board Sophomore
SBC?

I talked over 10 years ago to the woman in charge of the PCA lending library about Beth Moore. The gal who led our PCA women's meetings- her husband was an elder- adored Beth Moore. My sound doctrine pastor told me that what was so hard for him was that she got all her stuff from the PCA headquarters library...he had to ax three B.M series before she found a fourth that was more neutral and he gave in and let her use it. I ended up not attending, could not stand it.

I called the library to ask why they had an Arminian Dispensational bad teacher like B.M, and the gal in charge of the library said Beth Moore was awful and terrible doctrine and she had begged and pleaded with those in PCA authority to remove her, but they wouldn't because she is such a huge library money maker for them. ( It appears to be an annual flat fee today, back then I think you paid as you rented).

I took a glance, which is bad for my PCA cynical streak, and there she is : https://pcacdm.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Video_Library_Catalog_2019.pdf

I didn't feel like looking carefully at all 88 pages, but you can get your multi Beth Moore video series on pages 8,14, 26, and 27 which has 2 of them.

You can also get a few at least by Patricia Shirier, and learn to hear from God one on one in mysticism and all that jazz. Look her up under something like false teaching if you want to learn more.

This is the PCA folks, so I don't see how anybody can be surprised by the SBC, which has never professed to be as confessional as the PCA if I am not mistaken.

Pray for revival. I don't understand and I wish it was different. Glad to see a prominent voice speaking up.
Have you heard of Sarah Young of “Jesus Calling” fame? She’s made millions off evangelical women by writing down her personal messages from Jesus. It’s an empire now. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry or start throwing 3-legged furniture.
 

B.L.

Puritan Board Sophomore
Have you heard of Sarah Young of “Jesus Calling” fame? She’s made millions off evangelical women by writing down her personal messages from Jesus. It’s an empire now. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry or start throwing 3-legged furniture.

Doesn't she have a connection to the PCA? I thought I'd read that somewhere.

[Edit: Nevermind. Found this: https://www.jesuscalling.com/author/.]
 

Minh

Puritan Board Freshman
MacArthur, while having some theological errors (i.e. dispensationalism), should be very much commended for his staunch defense of the gospel against apostasy. He, in fact, was very adamant in his separation against false gospels and false ecumenism. Attending a John Ankerberg show with R. C. Sproul, D. James Kennedy, MacArthur was the most vocal critic of the Evangelical and Catholic Together (ECT) and an advocate for total separation from it, even from the evangelical camp who signed the ECT accord. Praise God for him!
 

Ben Zartman

Puritan Board Sophomore
Aaaaand… there you have the motivation behind the madness! Money, plain and simple. I would love to know who was backing her financially to begin with, who negotiated her deals, etc. This is why we need to buy our books only from certain publishing companies and avoid the "big boys" who only look at the profit motive. (I wish Christian Book Distributors would go out of business, or at least drop my address from their mailing list!) What disgusting dribble is offered through these companies.
I'm sad to hear that about the PCA. It seems that we're coming to the point that local associations are the only alternative for our churches. We are unaffiliated, not by choice, but by necessity. As "reforming" Baptists, what options are available to us? The denominations are driven by money as well and it seems the only controversy they wish to court is against their conservative members. Really takes courage to be applauded by the majority of the godless secularists in our nation. God help us!
If you cannot find a denominational association, rejoice! Associating is against Baptist polity as per the LBCF. Joining a denomination brings you nothing of good, but fetches in all their baggage and makes you guilty by association of all their ills.
Sorry if this drifts a little--I simply needed to respond to the "what options are available?" We can discuss this at greater length elsewhere if anyone wishes.
 

Chad Hutson

Puritan Board Freshman
Associating is against Baptist polity as per the LBCF.
Association is different than being under the rule of a governing body. It is good for churches of like faith to associate, lest they become isolated. Don't mistake my comments for a commendation of hierarchical rule by a distant governing body.
But to know that there are like-minded churches that believers can fellowship with, visit when on vacation, and communicate with is of value. Believe me, in our area, I have few trusted fellow preachers who I can call on and seek advice from. Our church is unaffiliated with any denomination or association at the present, but we sure wouldn't mind a group of loosely associated churches edifying and encouraging each other to continue in the faith!
 

meanderingwanderer

Puritan Board Freshman
I live very close to Grace Life, the church mentioned in the OP, and applaud them for their stand on biblical truth. I grew up in the SBC and I find it appalling the direction it is heading. The vote of Proposal 9 at the national convention, endorsement of B. Moore, even a few of the “leaders” recently endorsing a book by Paula White. And then, to see many attack MacArthur et. al. who stand on the teachings of Scripture.
As others have said, the downgrade in the SBC is real.
 

lynnie

Puritan Board Graduate
https://ses.edu/Jesus-calling-by-sarah-young-a-false-Jesus/

Looks like she’s been reigned in somewhat but I still can’t believe the audacity of someone who is comfortable writing her impressions down as though Jesus were speaking. It was jarring back in my Pentecostal days and it still bothers me.

It should bother you, and I speak as a non cessationist who has known the direct leading and guiding of the Holy Spirit on occasion. My Aunt gave me a copy for my daughter, and I thanked her for thinking of my daughter and went home and threw it in the trash.
 

Phil D.

Puritan Board Junior
As others have said, the downgrade in the SBC is real.

Which is quite sad, and even a little bit surprising, given the substantial resurgence of conservatism and "Calvinism" the Founders movement was able to bring about earlier within the same generation.

The current, massive downgrade is a matter of great concern for our local church leadership, and a number of responsive options are currently under considerations.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Which is quite sad, and even a little bit surprising, given the substantial resurgence of conservatism and "Calvinism" the Founders movement was able to bring about earlier within the same generation.

The current, massive downgrade is a matter of great concern for our local church leadership, and a number of responsive options are currently under considerations.
The current President of the Sbc sees himself as a modern day Prophet, so they fight about calvinism, and yet allow Charasmatic Chaos right in?
 

My Pilgrim Way

Puritan Board Freshman
I also appreciate his stand, but I didn't appreciate the flippancy / humor that was presented by some in this clip. These things should grieve believers, not cause laughter. The Lord isn't laughing.
 
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Taylor

Puritan Board Senior
Which is quite sad, and even a little bit surprising, given the substantial resurgence of conservatism and "Calvinism" the Founders movement was able to bring about earlier within the same generation.

To be completely honest, I am not that surprised. I was once in the "Young, Restless, and Reformed" resurgence, but soon got out of it. And, once out, I realized how deficient the movement was and still is. All this resurgence is is just an embracing of of 4-5 point Calvinist soteriology. But there is so much missing—solid ecclesiology, a proper understanding of the Law, the relationship of Church and state, a comprehensive concept of the role of men, etc. In other words, embracing a Calvinistic soteriology outside of the context of the greater Reformed theological system as a whole is backwards and, as we can see, potentially leads to all kinds of issues.

So, in my estimation, Founders Ministries came too late. The backwardness was already set in.
 

Phil D.

Puritan Board Junior
So, in my estimation, Founders Ministries came too late. The backwardness was already set in.

By and large I would have to agree. Yet in the case of my particular SBC church (before I began attending) the Founders movement helped foster a sound, conservative (biblical) comprehension in many of the areas you mentioned, and by the grace of God and our governance by a plurality of godly elders they are holding very firm.
 

Taylor

Puritan Board Senior
By and large I would have to agree. Yet in the case of my particular SBC church (before I began attending) the Founders movement helped foster a sound, conservative (biblical) comprehension in many of the areas you mentioned, and by the grace of God and our governance by a plurality of godly elders they are holding very firm.

Praise the Lord for that, brother! Of course, I did not mean to make it sound like that Founders has done nothing. They are doing amazing work, in my opinion. They are a strong confessional voice in a denomination that needs it. I just fear that the Calvinist "resurgence" may have come too fiercely out of nowhere, as it were, and Founders (which may be older than the YRR movement; I’m not sure) was simply outnumbered, if only for the fact that it is so much easier to be a mere "five pointer" than a historically confessional Christian.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
Praise the Lord for that, brother! Of course, I did not mean to make it sound like that Founders has done nothing. They are doing amazing work, in my opinion. They are a strong confessional voice in a denomination that needs it. I just fear that the Calvinist "resurgence" may have come too fiercely out of nowhere, as it were, and Founders (which may be older than the YRR movement; I’m not sure) was simply outnumbered, if only for the fact that it is so much easier to be a mere "five pointer" than a historically confessional Christian.
Think that there are many more Baptist Calvinists then there are Reformed Baptists, and the current ongoing dispute among Sbc is to those holding to the 5 points of Grace Sotierology, and those to more free will Gospel viewpoints. Also think that since the current President of the Sbc holds to Charasmatic views, that the problems relating to Charasmatic Chaos will soon spread throughout their churches now. Sad that the Sbc will fight over if calbinism is valid, and yet take on in many strange doctrines from the Charasmatic theology side within their ranks now.
 
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OPC'n

Puritan Board Doctor

:offtopic: I just noticed that you linked P&P. I have to say that I have caught them in some blatant lies. They talk badly about Al Mohler and Ligon Duncan which I find disturbing. They also talk badly about John Piper and Kevin DeYoung. I don't really know John Piper or Kevin DeYoung so I can't speak to what they teach, but I have listened to many sermons from Mohler and Duncan and have never found them to be lacking. I'm only writing this to have you reconsider gleaning info from them.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
I hear of churches leaving the SBC over a woman preacher. But why haven't they left already over the other issues? Especially the poor handling of child sexual abuse cases?

To claim the moral high ground NOW over telling a woman to go home when so many have failed to protect children is more than a little disappointing.

Protecting women and children should have been a bigger priority than reminding them of their proper place.
 

B.L.

Puritan Board Sophomore
I hear of churches leaving the SBC over a woman preacher. But why haven't they left already over the other issues? Especially the poor handling of child sexual abuse cases?

To claim the moral high ground NOW over telling a woman to go home when so many have failed to protect children is more than a little disappointing.

Protecting women and children should have been a bigger priority than reminding them of their proper place.

How do you know there aren't Baptist churches already disassociating from the SBC over the "other" issues?

I think just as the messengers at the last convention took steps to remove churches that handled child sex abuse cases poorly they should also seek to do the same and cease from associating with churches that promote women preachers and egalitarianism.

However, I think when critiquing the issues in the SBC it's important to remember the distinctives of Baptist polity, specifically the autonomy of each individual congregation and it's voluntary cooperation with a convention. Baptists shouldn't be confused with Episcopalians or Presbyterians in the way the association of churches are governed. While some may argue the SBC has become hierarchical, it's really not...my point in bringing this up is it seems the independence and autonomy of each Baptist congregation makes it exceedingly difficult (and slow) to detect and address issues at the national level. As an example, my church voluntarily associates with the SBC as do nearly all other Baptist churches in my area and my congregation would likely never know if the church on the other end of town was having issues.
 
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