John Piper Responds to Wilkerson "Prophecy"

Status
Not open for further replies.
I, like others on this thread, am a cessationist. In fact, I inserted this brief article about Wilkerson and Piper in the midst of a series of blogs I’m writing entitled, “A Humble Argument for the Cessation of NT Prophecy and Tongues.” I just posted Part 6 in which I’ll address and endeavor to refute Wayne Grudem’s attempt to distinguish OT canonical prophecy from NT congregational prophecy.

I’m sorry that Piper, an otherwise excellent preacher and theologian, has sided with Grudem on this debate. As a result, he has deprived himself of one important polemical weapon that might be employed against such self-proclaimed prophets as David Wilkerson, namely, the polemic that such revelatory gifts as prophecy have fulfilled their purpose and, therefore, have ceased.

Nevertheless, one of the purposes of this post was to demonstrate that we should resist the temptation to lump all non-cessationists together. There is, in my mind, a significant difference between a John Piper and a David Wilkerson. Piper gives a much higher place to the Scriptures as the supreme authority for matters of faith and life than does Wilkerson. Moreover, Piper, unlike some non-cessationists, is willing to “test the spirits” and to say publicly when he thinks an alleged prophecy is wrong.

Granted, as some have pointed out, Piper’s own view of prophecy, namely, that genuine NT prophecy is by nature potentially fallible, hinders him from issuing as strong a censure to Wilkerson as we might wish. But before we’re too hard on Piper, we need to thank God that He overrules many of our own inconsistencies. When I was once Arminian in my soteriology, I, nevertheless, prayed like a Calvinist because of my commitment to certain teachings in Scripture. "Thank you, God, for overruling my inconsistency!" And I’m almost 100% sure that I haven’t arrived at doctrinal perfection and consistency yet. Hopefully, God will overrule my remaining doctrinal weaknesses and cause me to be blessedly inconsistent in those areas. With that in view, I thank God that Piper’s commitment to the supremacy of Scripture has trumped his view of ongoing prophecy.

There’s more I should say. A few of you have noted Piper’s use of subjective language. Piper is uncomfortable with Wilkinson’s prophecy because it does not “resonate with [his] spirit” and “does not have the feel of authority to [him].” Two things should be noted: first, sound epistemology recognizes that there’s no such thing as a purely objective human knowledge. That is to say, knowledge, discernment, evaluation, etc., necessarily involve the engagement of one’s subjective psychological faculties. Some may not like terms like “resonate” or “feels.” But is "know" or “think” any less subjective? According to Paul, man’s been created as the imago Dei with a sense of the Deity and conscience that “resonates” with God’s self-authenticating general and special revelation. Moreover, lest we’re too quick to fault Piper for failing to use stronger and more objective language, we need to acknowledge the the NT writers themselves sometimes used terminology that has a subjective sound to it, as one brother on the PB noted. For example,
“For it has seemed [Greek dokeo] good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements [emphasis added]” (Acts 15:28, ESV).
Of course, the point of this text is not to render the requirements uncertain or less binding. It's just to point that language like "it seems to me" or "I feel that" or "this doesn't resonate with my spirit" is not necessarily unbiblical or mere sentimental mishmash.

Second, and this complements the first point, the title of Piper’s response to Wilkerson suggests that he’s trying to follow the biblical protocol “testing the spirits” against Scripture to see whether they’re of God (1 Thess. 5:21; 1 John 4:1-6). The fact that Piper quotes Scripture in his assessment of Wilkerson’s prophecy leads me to believe that he’s using canonical Scripture as the basis for his assessment, not a prophetic hunch or a mere personal opinion. Here I’m inclined to place the best construction on Piper’s words though I still disagree with the continuationist framework from which he operates.

If you follow the rest of my posts on cessationism, I think you’ll find that I’m not justifying Piper’s own view of prophecy. Just want to be fair to the man and encourage Christians to resist the temptation of lumping men like him together with less principled and biblical oriented non-cessationists. For a chart that illustrates differences among non-cessationists, click here.

Your servant,
As a continuationist I say very good post!
 
The fact that Piper quotes Scripture in his assessment of Wilkerson’s prophecy leads me to believe that he’s using canonical Scripture as the basis for his assessment, not a prophetic hunch or a mere personal opinion. Here I’m inclined to place the best construction on Piper’s words though I still disagree with the continuationist framework from which he operates.

The charitable assessment is praiseworthy. The problem is that Scripture can really only be used as a moral or doctrinal test. Where these are neutralised -- as one would expect them to be in the case of a person seeking to act in accord with Scripture -- there is really no test which can be applied except the futurition of the event. If God still speaks, then God could say anything. If the revelation is the same as that which we find in the canonical process, there is no reason why God could not require the same kinds of things as He required during the canonical process, including the offering of one's first born son or the annihilation of a nation. It is probably the case that all continuationists follow this through differently, but that is only because some are afraid of following through on the full conviction of their belief.
 
The charitable assessment is praiseworthy. The problem is that Scripture can really only be used as a moral or doctrinal test. Where these are neutralised -- as one would expect them to be in the case of a person seeking to act in accord with Scripture -- there is really no test which can be applied except the futurition of the event. If God still speaks, then God could say anything. If the revelation is the same as that which we find in the canonical process, there is no reason why God could not require the same kinds of things as He required during the canonical process, including the offering of one's first born son or the annihilation of a nation. It is probably the case that all continuationists follow this through differently, but that is only because some are afraid of following through on the full conviction of their belief.

:up:

While it may seem slightly hyperbolic (though I don't think it is at all), I think this critique of the continuationist is spot on and needs to be more seriously weighed.
 
The fact that Piper quotes Scripture in his assessment of Wilkerson’s prophecy leads me to believe that he’s using canonical Scripture as the basis for his assessment, not a prophetic hunch or a mere personal opinion. Here I’m inclined to place the best construction on Piper’s words though I still disagree with the continuationist framework from which he operates.

The charitable assessment is praiseworthy. The problem is that Scripture can really only be used as a moral or doctrinal test. Where these are neutralised -- as one would expect them to be in the case of a person seeking to act in accord with Scripture -- there is really no test which can be applied except the futurition of the event. If God still speaks, then God could say anything. If the revelation is the same as that which we find in the canonical process, there is no reason why God could not require the same kinds of things as He required during the canonical process, including the offering of one's first born son or the annihilation of a nation. It is probably the case that all continuationists follow this through differently, but that is only because some are afraid of following through on the full conviction of their belief.

Matthew,
I would add that if Grudem is correct and if revelation is different than the canonical process, then God could also say anything, with the difference that we are left wondering if God was right or not.

That to me is even more frightening than a re-opening of the canon (which I agree with you is extremely problematic).
 
So many looking for that crystal ball even if they won't admit...David tries to supply one I guess
 
Just to point something out, that I thought would have been fairly obvious to the people posting it. The Greek verb dokew, translated "seemed" in Acts 15:28 does not at all necessitate uncertainty. The verb implies subjectivity, but not uncertainty. For example, if I say "The barbecue seems too sweet," I am not saying that I am unsure if the barbecue is too sweet. I'm saying I am sure that in my opinion the barbecue is too sweet.

Obviously, in Acts 15:28 the Holy Spirit is not unsure about what is good. The Holy Spirit has decided what is good, and the council agrees with that assessment. The problem with Piper's assessment is not that it is subjective, but that it is subjective and uncertain. There is no corresponding biblical parallel.
 
Just to point something out, that I thought would have been fairly obvious to the people posting it. The Greek verb dokew, translated "seemed" in Acts 15:28 does not at all necessitate uncertainty. The verb implies subjectivity, but not uncertainty. For example, if I say "The barbecue seems too sweet," I am not saying that I am unsure if the barbecue is too sweet. I'm saying I am sure that in my opinion the barbecue is too sweet.

Obviously, in Acts 15:28 the Holy Spirit is not unsure about what is good. The Holy Spirit has decided what is good, and the council agrees with that assessment. The problem with Piper's assessment is not that it is subjective, but that it is subjective and uncertain. There is no corresponding biblical parallel.

Charlie,

Your description of the relationship between subjectivity and uncertainty/certainty is correct. Both the English term "to seem" as well as the Greek word dokeo highlight subjectivity but need not imply uncertainty. The issue is, however, more complex than you've portrayed it.

First, epistemic certainty and/or uncertainty may vary in degree. In other words, it's not as simple as the barbecue illustration you employ. For example, when a pastor or theologian attempts to argue for a particular interpretation of a given text, his interpretation of the passage may "resonate" or "fail to resonate" at different levels with the receptor audience (whether hearers or readers). Greater certainty or doubt vis-a-vis the interpretation may only be obtained when the listener or reader carefully and prayerfully weighs the interpretation in the light of his own grammatical-historial analysis of the text, the analogy of Scripture, the opinions of other learned interpreters, and the guidance of God's Spirit.

Second, I agree that Piper's assessment of Wilkerson's prophecy lacked the degree of skepticism that you and I might entertain as cessationists. Nevertheless, Piper's measured or qualified doubt concerning the validity of Wilkerson's prophecy when assessed within the framework of his own non-cessationist viewpoint is not, in my mind, too far removed from at least some of the initial uncertainty ancient Jews or early Christians may have entertained when alleged NT prophecies were initially uttered.

Remember that the canons by which new prophecy was to be tested included (1) the consistency of that prophecy with extant canonical revelation and (2) the fulfillment of that prophecy if it portended an event in the future. It follows, then, that during the time period in which the prophetic utterance was weighed the hearers or readers may have felt degrees of certainty or uncertainty that were not resolved until (1) they had time to compare the alleged new revelation with prior canonical revelation and/or (2) they had time to see whether the event portended would come to pass.

Accordingly, when the Bereans first heard Paul, their initially impression may have been that Paul's message "seemed" with a qualified degree of certainty consistent with the message of the OT canon. But their level of certainty did not increase until they invested the effort of studying Paul's message in light of the Scriptures (see Acts 17:11). Only then did Paul's gospel more certainly "seem" authentic. Similarly, degrees of uncertainty may have attended a "first-time" prophetic portension of coming good or ill. This lact of absolute certainty might only be removed when the portended event either happened or failed to happen.

I do not say this to give Piper a free pass. As you're probably aware, I'm currently posting a series in defense of cessationism, and I am interacting primarily with Wayne Grudem, whose overall view of NT prophecy Piper advocates. I hope, in that series, to underscore some of the same weaknesses and potential dangers that some on this thread, like the Reverends Winzer and Greco, have already noted. It is my opinion, however, that those who may have been swayed by Grudem's and/or Piper's arguments for continuationism will be more willing to listen to our cessationist arguments if we make every effort to be fair and charitable in our critiques of men whom they esteem. Of course, if I believed Wayne Grudem and John Piper were heretics (in the fullest sense of that term), which I certainly don't, my polemic would take on a different tone.

Your servant,
 
It is also worth noting that what seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to the council of elders was in fact made binding on the churches, and was not presented as something which might be followed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top