Justification by faith alone; eternal life by....

[zsmcd]

Could someone give some insight on what Piper is trying to say in his intro to Schreiners book on Sola Fide?

Which means, this book is dealing with treasures of immeasurable importance. Infinity cannot be measured. And infinite things are at stake. As Tom Schreiner says, the book “tackles one of the fundamental questions of our human condition: how can a person be right with God?”

The stunning Christian answer is: sola fide—faith alone. But be sure you hear this carefully and precisely: He says right with God by faith alone, not attain heaven by faith alone. There are other conditions for attaining heaven, but no others for entering a right relationship to God. In fact, one must already be in a right relationship with God by faith alone in order to meet the other conditions.

“We are justified by faith alone, but not by faith that is alone.” Faith that is alone is not faith in union with Christ. Union with Christ makes his perfection and power ours through faith. And in union with Christ, faith is living and active with Christ’s power.

Such faith always “works by love” and produces the “obedience of faith.” And that obedience— imperfect as it is till the day we die—is not the “basis of justification, but . . . a necessary evidence and fruit of justification.” In this sense, love and obedience—inherent righteousness—is “required of believers, but not for justification”—that is, required for heaven, not for entering a right-standing with God.

(emphasis mine)

http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/b...ers-new-book-on-justification-by-faith-alone/

 

[PaulMc]

Beeke and Jones, in their conclusion to the chapter in 'A Puritan Theology' on Covenant Conditions, summarise as follows:
'The conditions of the covenant were principally faith in Christ and its fruit of new obedience. The former condition was understood, against the antinomians, as an antecedent condition, so that no blessing procured by Christ could be applied to the believer until he or she exercised faith in Christ. Only then did actual justification take place. Being in covenant with God, the believer is required to believe and keep God's commandments. Therefore the pursuit of holiness and practice of righteousness are also conditions, but they are consequent to the initial exercise of faith.' (p.318)

I imagine that it would be within this framework that Piper has written the above.

 

[Pergamum]

Sounds like he is saying holiness of life/good works/obedience will always follow faith.

 

[zsmcd]

I suppose I am mostly confused on his distinction between justification and acquiring eternal life. I understand that there is a difference between our justification and glorification (not that they can be separated, for all who are justified will one day be glorified), but I do not understand the distinction between the requirement for justification (faith) and the requirements for eternal life (faith + obedience?).

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Here is the entire foreword: http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/b...ers-new-book-on-justification-by-faith-alone/

As others have said, Piper is summarizing those things that are fruits of union with Christ. I personally don't like that construction but the main point is that those whom Christ has purchased are not only justified but adopted and sanctified. As eome would say: "We are made fit for heaven."

 

[timfost]

It sounds to me that Piper is distinguishing between eternal security and perseverance of the saints. Heb. 13:20-21 states "complete you in every good work" and "working in you what is well pleasing." Sanctification proceeds justification and apart from this there is no assurance of eternal life.

 

[Toasty]

Could someone give some insight on what Piper is trying to say in his intro to Schreiners book on Sola Fide?

Which means, this book is dealing with treasures of immeasurable importance. Infinity cannot be measured. And infinite things are at stake. As Tom Schreiner says, the book “tackles one of the fundamental questions of our human condition: how can a person be right with God?”

The stunning Christian answer is: sola fide—faith alone. But be sure you hear this carefully and precisely: He says right with God by faith alone, not attain heaven by faith alone. There are other conditions for attaining heaven, but no others for entering a right relationship to God. In fact, one must already be in a right relationship with God by faith alone in order to meet the other conditions.

“We are justified by faith alone, but not by faith that is alone.” Faith that is alone is not faith in union with Christ. Union with Christ makes his perfection and power ours through faith. And in union with Christ, faith is living and active with Christ’s power.

Such faith always “works by love” and produces the “obedience of faith.” And that obedience— imperfect as it is till the day we die—is not the “basis of justification, but . . . a necessary evidence and fruit of justification.” In this sense, love and obedience—inherent righteousness—is “required of believers, but not for justification”—that is, required for heaven, not for entering a right-standing with God.

(emphasis mine)

http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/b...ers-new-book-on-justification-by-faith-alone/

What is meant by "conditions"? Is Piper calling those things "conditions" because those things are guaranteed to take place in the life of believer?

Since those things are guaranteed to take place in the life of believer, his faith is not alone.

Just because those things are guaranteed to place in the life of believer, does not mean that we earn, merit, or deserve salvation.

 

[timfost]

This might help:

Dort First head, article 12:

"The elect in due time, though in various degrees and in different measures, attain the assurance of this their eternal and unchangeable election, not by inquisitively prying into the secret and deep things of God, but by observing in themselves with a spiritual joy and holy pleasure the infallible fruits of election pointed out in the Word of God—such as, a true faith in Christ, filial fear, a godly sorrow for sin, a hungering and thirsting after righteousness, etc."

 

[Mr. Bultitude]

John Piper: you don't attain heaven by faith alone

Justin Taylor, the proprietor of the blog where this was posted, said in response to criticism from comments:

Piper’s comment is in full accord with what the best of Protestant-Reformed-Puritan theologians have taught for centuries on this.

Can anyone give examples of similar statements by historic Puritan and Reformed theologians?

 

[zsmcd]

I just posted a thread about this on Friday, there are some helpful comments in that thread.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

You might find Mark Jones' Antinomianism, pp 61ff helpful on this point.

 

[KeithW]

I just posted a thread about this on Friday, there are some helpful comments in that thread.

Zach is referring to Justification by faith alone; eternal life by....

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Threads merged.

 

[MW]

In this sense, love and obedience—inherent righteousness—is “required of believers, but not for justification”—that is, required for heaven, not for entering a right-standing with God.

This is a confusing statement at best. If followed through it would lead to a dichotomy between justification and heaven which effectively empties justification of its significance.

Our Lord taught, John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

Justification is a passing from death to life. Heaven is the consummation of that life.

The Scriptures teach that a righteous man will do righteous works. These works are not "required for heaven;" they are the manifestation of the justified state and the way in which a justified person walks to heaven.

When a justified person comes to be judged by his works, these works are never examined as if they were to give the person a title to life, but are the fruits and evidence that the man is justified and lives by faith.

 

[Pilgrim]

This is a confusing statement at best. If followed through it would lead to a dichotomy between justification and heaven which effectively empties justification of its significance.

Both men have previously been accused of making confusing statements on justification. Specifically at issue is Schreiner and Caneday's The Race Set Before Us and Piper's Future Grace, although the latter has recently been revised, apparently clarifying his views on sola fide. I haven't read those books through and thus cannot render an opinion, (for whatever that might be worth.)

 

[HaMetumtam]

Sorry to say I feel the waters are muddied when i hear John Piper speak on salvation and "how to be right with God" I much prefer the confessional statements like Heidelberg question 60 & 61 on salvation.

Question 60. How are thou righteous before God?

Answer: Only by a true faith in Jesus Christ; so that, though my conscience accuse me, that I have grossly transgressed all the commandments of God, and kept none of them, and am still inclined to all evil; notwithstanding, God, without any merit of mine, but only of mere grace, grants and imputes to me, the perfect satisfaction, righteousness and holiness of Christ; even so, as if I never had had, nor committed any sin: yea, as if I had fully accomplished all that obedience which Christ has accomplished for me; inasmuch as I embrace such benefit with a believing heart.

Question 61. Why sayest thou, that thou art righteous by faith only?

Answer: Not that I am acceptable to God, on account of the worthiness of my faith; but because only the satisfaction, righteousness, and holiness of Christ, is my righteousness before God; (a) and that I cannot receive and apply the same to myself any other way than by faith only.

I dont think anyone would feel the need to open a thread and ask what is being said here, and i think that speaks volumes.

 

[zsmcd]

The answer to question 61 is glorious.

 

[zsmcd]

Mark Jones responds.

 

[zsmcd]

Two more...

https://patrickspensees.wordpress.com/2015/09/24/a-puritan-defense-of-piper/

http://heidelblog.net/2015/09/we-attain-heaven-through-faith-alone/

 

[MW]

Mark Jones responds.

Again, Piper says we do "not attain heaven by faith alone" and Turretin speaks of the "indispensable necessity of good works for obtaining glory". I don't see why we can't agree that they are saying essentially the same thing; and, indeed, if they are, what is the problem?

The problem, as I see it, is that Piper contrasts two things -- justification and heaven, as if they were two different things obtained in two different ways; whereas Turretin carefully noted the important connection between justification and heaven. Piper's words were poorly chosen and are apt to mislead. Rather than dispute over the language and create a mountain out of a molehill, it seems a simple matter of wisdom to correct the language so as to remove the possibility of misleading those who might not understand what is at issue.

 

[bobtheman]

Could someone give some insight on what Piper is trying to say in his intro to Schreiners book on Sola Fide?

Which means, this book is dealing with treasures of immeasurable importance. Infinity cannot be measured. And infinite things are at stake. As Tom Schreiner says, the book “tackles one of the fundamental questions of our human condition: how can a person be right with God?”

The stunning Christian answer is: sola fide—faith alone. But be sure you hear this carefully and precisely: He says right with God by faith alone, not attain heaven by faith alone. There are other conditions for attaining heaven, but no others for entering a right relationship to God. In fact, one must already be in a right relationship with God by faith alone in order to meet the other conditions.

“We are justified by faith alone, but not by faith that is alone.” Faith that is alone is not faith in union with Christ. Union with Christ makes his perfection and power ours through faith. And in union with Christ, faith is living and active with Christ’s power.

Such faith always “works by love” and produces the “obedience of faith.” And that obedience— imperfect as it is till the day we die—is not the “basis of justification, but . . . a necessary evidence and fruit of justification.” In this sense, love and obedience—inherent righteousness—is “required of believers, but not for justification”—that is, required for heaven, not for entering a right-standing with God.

(emphasis mine)

http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/b...ers-new-book-on-justification-by-faith-alone/

Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.

Saved from what? Saved from eternal damnation. At the moment of your salvation, you are justified.

James 2:17-18
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.


Correct me if im wrong, but you are saved by faith and faith alone. One is not saved by good works, one is saved so they can do good works. And one who says they are saved and is without good works should examine their assumed salvation.

 

[TylerRay]

Doesn't John Piper follow Daniel Fuller's departure from/redefinition of justification by faith alone?

 

[timfost]

Correct me if im wrong, but you are saved by faith and faith alone. One is not saved by good works, one is saved so they can do good works. And one who says they are saved and is without good works should examine their assumed salvation.

Thought this might be helpful:

For if Moses had spoken thus immediately on Abram's first vocation, the cavil of which I have spoken would have been more specious; namely, that the righteousness of faith was only initial (so to speak) and not perpetual. But now since after such great progress, he is still said to be justified by faith, it thence easily appears that the saints are justified freely even unto death. I confess, indeed, that after the faithful are born again by the Spirit of God, the method of justifying differs, in some respect, from the former. For God reconciles to himself those who are born only of the flesh, and who are destitute of all good; and since he finds nothing in them except a dreadful mass of evils, he counts them just, by imputation. But those to whom he has imparted the Spirit of holiness and righteousness, he embraces with his gifts. Nevertheless, in order that their good works may please God, it is necessary that these works themselves should be justified by gratuitous imputation; but some evil is always inherent in them. (From Calvin's commentary on Gen. 15:6)