Justification

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Craig

Puritan Board Senior
I would greatly appreciate anybody with knowledge of Greek, or simply systematics to help me out.

Here are the verses:
Rom. 5:16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. 18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."

1 Cor. 6: "But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

I am thoroughly convinced that justification precedes sanctification...and I don't believe we're justified by an "infusion" of Christ's righteousness...but how do we respond to Romanists who think, especially this 1 Cor 6:11 quote, show that justification follows sanctification?
 

openairboy

Puritan Board Freshman
Originally posted by Craig
I would greatly appreciate anybody with knowledge of Greek, or simply systematics to help me out.

Here are the verses:
Rom. 5:16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. 18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."

1 Cor. 6: "But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

I am thoroughly convinced that justification precedes sanctification...and I don't believe we're justified by an "infusion" of Christ's righteousness...but how do we respond to Romanists who think, especially this 1 Cor 6:11 quote, show that justification follows sanctification?

Craig,

To make sure I'm not missing you, are you using Rom 5 as 'proof-text' for justification preceeding sanctification? If so, fine. I just want to make sure I am trecking with you.

Now, I don't really see 1 Cor 6:11 teaching anything different. Without spending a lot of time with the text, I would see Paul essentially teaching definitive sanctification. "Sanctified" here, I believe, simply means set apart. The Reformed world treats sanctification in two senses: definitive and progressive. Definitive is the "setting apart" of an individual, which I believe Paul is discussing here, so it doesn't interfer with the doctrine of justification (the imputation of Christ's righteousness). Most of the time, however, when we hear the word "sanctification" we think of being "renewed in the whole man after the image of God...increased, and strengthened, as that they more and more die unto sin, and rise unto newness of life."

So, 1 Co. 6:11 isn't arguing for an "ordo salutis", or any such thing, but Paul is simply appealing to their status to contrast them with the "sinners" of vvs. 9-10, "and such were some of you". The Christian message is the reconciliation of sinners with God. He takes the drunkards, homos, perverts, greedy, swindlers, etc., and washes them (regenerates), sets them apart, and declares them righteous.

Man, that truly is good news!

openairboy
 

Puritan Sailor

Puritan Board Doctor
I'd agree. Paul is not listing an order necessarily. He's just listing what Christ had done for them as he exhorts them. If he was listing an order of salvation in 1 Cor. then he would be contradicting his others epistles.
 

Craig

Puritan Board Senior
But how do I explain that Paul isn't necessarily explaining the oder? I guess I could simply show more explicitly how it is clearly taught and interpret the verse from Corinthians in light of that, but couldn't he do the opposite?

Also, the quote from Romans says that through the one act, many will be made righteous. Perhaps there's a nuance in the greek that would clarify...I have no problem with it, but Romanists don't agree with my pressuppositions. I have no problem saying I will be made righteous...I will be. But that is not the grounds of my justification...

Sorry if my questions aren't clear, I just would like to know how to explain these things clearly to this Romanist.
 

Puritan Sailor

Puritan Board Doctor
You have to read what he said earlier in chapter 3 and 4 and the beginnning of 5. Justification is there spoken of as a one time act not a long process. And the idea of many being "made righteous" should be understood not as a process, which contradicts everything he wrote before. Just look at the 2 previous verses. Justification isn't spoken of there as a process but as a "gift of righteousness." Paul later in chapter 5 goes into more detail as to how we receive that justification, Christ is the representative of many (i.e. the elect) adn acted on thier behalf, just as Adam did for the human race. Also look at Galatians, where again justification is by faith, not by the works of the law.
 

openairboy

Puritan Board Freshman
Originally posted by Craig
But how do I explain that Paul isn't necessarily explaining the oder? I guess I could simply show more explicitly how it is clearly taught and interpret the verse from Corinthians in light of that, but couldn't he do the opposite?

Also, the quote from Romans says that through the one act, many will be made righteous. Perhaps there's a nuance in the greek that would clarify...I have no problem with it, but Romanists don't agree with my pressuppositions. I have no problem saying I will be made righteous...I will be. But that is not the grounds of my justification...

Sorry if my questions aren't clear, I just would like to know how to explain these things clearly to this Romanist.

You would have to look at Trent and their doctine of justification, but I would simply look at the "but that's the way some of you WERE", but you WERE washed, you WERE sanctified, you WERE justified. All of these are something that HAVE occured in the past. So, read Trent, and their statements there regarding justification, then appeal to the passive and past tense that Paul is using here. Will the Papist agree that you HAVE BEEN (passive and past language) justified?

Make sense?

openairboy
 

Craig

Puritan Board Senior
BTW- I found my commentary on Romans by Charles Hodge...that is helping me a lot!

If you remember, could you be in prayer concerning this dialogue I'm having? I am thoroughly convinced of the Reformed view; but I want to be clear, charitable, and desire God's blessing on it. I would like this person to leave Rome...and probably academics for a while (not to be anti-intellectual, but many who pursue academics today lack the spiritual depth that the Puritans had).
 

Robin

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by puritansailor
I'd agree. Paul is not listing an order necessarily. He's just listing what Christ had done for them as he exhorts them. If he was listing an order of salvation in 1 Cor. then he would be contradicting his others epistles.

My Dear Patrick,

Paul IS listing an order specifically! Here's what I mean...

Sanctification IS simultaneously given to the believer (in total fullness) the moment of Justification. Sanctification is BOTH a one time gift AND is worked out in the Christian life. This is why Paul can speak of being simultaneously saved and being a sinner in Romans 7. BTW, always read Romans 5,6,7,8 in order and connected. In fact, start from Romans 1, continue through to the end (at least to chpt 9) chpt. 15. If you do this - without stopping, I'm sure you see the different "spin".

BTW, Paul always opens each of his letters with "indicative" language-meaning what Christ "has done" - then he uses the "imperative" language (usually in chpt. 2/3) which is a "to do" list that the believer is told to do-given his knowledge on what Christ has already done for him. It is vital that these two different types of language are kept in order (not swapped) - for this is precisely how Roman Catholicism distorts the Gospel into a works based system.

Sanctification: we are ALREADY PERFECT-CLOTHED IN Christ'S RIGHTEOUSNESS - yet - simultaneously struggling with sin in this life - only to be finally freed the moment of either 1. death or 2. Christ's 2nd Advent.

The Reformers called this "simul justus et peccator" simultaneous justified and sinner.

Robin :)
 

Robin

Puritan Board Junior
:scholar:

Another thought - that is much easier than learning Greek...

Simply READ and/or HEAR the book of Romans from start to finish - without stopping to analyze. Do this a couple of times. It will take about an hour - maybe two. (The more you can do this, the better.)

When you do this, be aware that you are reading probably THE most powerful piece of literature on earth! This document changed the shape of Western Civilization forever.

Here is what Calvin says of Romans:

With regard to the excellency of this Epistle, I know not whether it would be well for me to dwell long on the subject; for I fear, lest through my recommendations falling far short of what they ought to be, I should do nothing but obscure its merits: besides, the Epistle itself, at its very beginning, explains itself in a much better way than can be done by any words which I can use."

Here is Calvin's commentary of Romans:

http://www.ccel.org/c/calvin/comment3/comm_vol38/htm/TOC.htm

Robin ;)
 
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