Knowledge, Assent, Trust--elements of faith?

[a mere housewife]

When we trust the knowledge we are really only trusting something of ourselves -- our knowledge. When we trust the person or thing that is known then we truly have faith in that person or thing.

Is this why assent can even thrive (and did in my case) on pride -- whereas trust in someone else cuts across pride rather violently?

 

[MW]

Is this why assent can even thrive (and did in my case) on pride -- whereas trust in someone else cuts across pride rather violently?

That is likely. Finding worth in the higher object of faith is a necessary accompaniment of faith. Hence we are to glory in the Lord. When we glory in other things our sense of worth becomes misplaced. So when we glory in knowledge, besides missing the purpose for which knowledge is "given," the temporal nature of the object makes it possible for one to set himself up above another's attainments.

 

[Alan D. Strange]

I was in the precisely same boat as Vic. And Matthew is correct: saving faith is faith in Christ not faith in a body of knowledge about Him.

The Scriptures make this clear as do the all the Reformers and the Reformed confessions. This is no small matter and not something with which we safely differ.

Peace,
Alan

 

[Rom]

A good illustration in my life in mental assent vs. faith that affects my volition is when it comes to the promises of God. For instance, I can give mental assent to this entire passage. I believe that this is the Word of God to me, and I give mental assent to it (Matthew 6)

25*“Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26*Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27*Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?
28*“So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29*and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30*Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
31*“Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32*For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33*But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34*Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

However, when facing calamity, job loss, etc. and worries start to creep up - I find myself mentally assenting to this but often falling into the chastisement of Jesus (O you of little faith) as I find truly how deep my trust in Him really is. For me, this has always been a good illustration of the difference between mental assent and faith and trust in Jesus.

 

[earl40]

We also assent and trust propositions about persons.

For truth to correspond to reality there must be persons and things about which every proposition gives descriptive information. The knowledge is one thing and the reality is another. When we trust the knowledge we are really only trusting something of ourselves -- our knowledge. When we trust the person or thing that is known then we truly have faith in that person or thing. Take some time to think about it. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is not faith in our knowledge of Him but faith in Him.

Our trust is in Jesus (the person). We also trust in His work. In other words, we trust in the propostion that He died for our sin.

 

[earl40]

I have found the 2 major "mistakes" people make is either who Jesus is or what He did. We trust both His person and His work.

 

[Alan D. Strange]

We trust both His person and His work.

And let all God's people say, "Amen!"

Peace,
Alan

 

[a mere housewife]

Finding worth in the higher object of faith is a necessary accompaniment of faith. Hence we are to glory in the Lord. When we glory in other things our sense of worth becomes misplaced. So when we glory in knowledge, besides missing the purpose for which knowledge is "given," the temporal nature of the object makes it possible for one to set himself up above another's attainments.

There is a lot to think about in this response. Thank you.

 

[MW]

Our trust is in Jesus (the person). We also trust in His work.

This is the place where we can all rest for time and eternity. It is probably a good place to rest our discussion also.

If it is understood that "trust" is a necessary and distinct element of saving faith, and that we trust the person and not simply propositions about the person, then we have secured what is essential to the Reformed witness on this subject.

 

[HaMetumtam]

This topic is so important thanks for all the answers. I have seen answers that differentiate on assent and trust in a person..very interesting. I found Luther to be beneficial when i find myself in doubts. Which seems to combine assent and personal trust, but not assent in our own thoughts about God but assent in the propositions of God...i.e His promises.

Little extract of "freedom of a Christian"

" Thus the soul, in firmly believing the promises of God, holds Him to be true and righteous; and it can attribute to God no higher glory than the credit of being so. The highest worship of God is to ascribe to Him truth, righteousness, and whatever qualities we must ascribe to one in whom we believe. In doing this the soul shows itself prepared to do His whole will; in doing this it hallows His name, and gives itself up to be dealt with as it may please God. For it cleaves to His promises, and never doubts that He is true, just, and wise, and will do, dispose, and provide for all things in the best way. Is not such a soul, in this its faith, most obedient to God in all things? What commandment does there remain which has not been amply fulfilled by such an obedience? What fulfilment can be more full than universal obedience? Now this is not accomplished by works, but by faith alone."


I think this shows that we are not merely believing propositions about God only as the demons do ....but believing God Himself by trusting Him and what He has done in His Son. So believing propositions that come from God rather than propositions about him may be a difference ?


Sorry just noticed the topic is closed.

 

[earl40]

I think this shows that we are not merely believing propositions about God only as the demons do ....but believing God Himself by trusting Him and what He has done in His Son. So believing propositions that come from God rather than propositions about him may be a difference ?


Sorry just noticed the topic is closed.

It was not officially closed though I am "tempted" and will say there is a difference between James 2:19 and Romans 10:9. If any man believes Romans 10:9 they will be saved. Also many men believe James 2:19 and will be lost.

 

[py3ak]

Let's make it official, and let Thomas Manton have the last word:

Works, v.4, pp.240,241:

Bare assent to the articles of religion doth not infer true faith. True faith uniteth to Christ, it is conversant about his person; it is not only assensus axiomati, an assent to a gospel-maxim or proposition; you are not justified by that, but by being one with Christ. It was the mistake of the former age to make the promise rather than the person of Christ to be the formal object of faith; the promise is the warrant, Christ the object: therefore the work of faith is terminated on him in the expressions of scripture. We read of coming to him, receiving him, &c.; we cannot close with Christ without a promise, and we must not close with a promise without Christ: in short, there is not only assent in faith, but consent; not only an assent to the truth of the word, but a consent to take Christ; there must be an act that is directly and formally conversant about the person of Christ. Well, then, do not mistake a naked illumination, or some general acknowledgment of the articles of religion for faith. A man may be right in opinion and judgment, but of vile affections; and a carnal Christian is in as great danger as a pagan, or idolater, or heretic; for though his judgment be sound, yet his manners are heterodox and heretical. True believing is not an act of the understanding only, but a work of `all the heart, Acts 8:37. I confess some expressions of scripture seem to lay much upon assent, as 1 John 4:2, and 5:1; 1 Cor. 12:3; Mat. 16:17; but these places do either show that assents, where they are serious, and upon full conviction, come from some special revelation; or else, if they propound them as evidences of grace, we must distinguish times: the greatest difficulty lay then upon assent, rather than affiance. The truths of God suffering under so many prejudices, the gospel was a novel doctrine, contrary to the ordinary and received principles of reason, persecuted in the world, no friend to natural and carnal affections, and therefore apt to be suspected. The wind that bloweth on our backs, blew in their faces; and that which draweth on many to assent to the gospel was their discouragement. Consent and long prescription of time, the countenance and favour of the world, do beget a veneration and reverence to religion; and therefore assent now is nothing so much as it was then, especially when it is trivial and arreptitious, rather than deliberate; for this is only the fruit of human testimony, and needeth not supernatural grace. Therefore do not please yourselves in naked assents; these cost nothing, and are worth nothing. There is ‘a form of knowledge,’ Rom. 2:20, as well as `a form of godliness, 2 Tim. 3:5. ‘A form of knowledge’ is nothing but an idea or module of truth in the brains, when there is no power or virtue to change and transform the heart.