Looking for a defense of Filioque

TryingToLearn

Puritan Board Freshman
I just got Matthew Barrett's "Simply Trinity" and was interested to see how he would defend the procession of the Spirit from the Father and the Son, as though Ive always believed it Ive never actually heard that good of an argument for it. His argument is basically the reason why I believe it: what the economic Trinity does mirrors the immanent Trinity. Still, I'm hoping to get any resources that defend the filioque? I'm still unsure if this derives from good and necessary consequence of Scripture or if I'm merely reading something into it because it makes sense to me.
 

Grant Van Leuven

Puritan Board Freshman
I really appreciate Gregory Beale's insight for an illustration of this doctrine from his book on Revelation.

Revelation 22:1 "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."

The Holy Spirit is represented by the water of life, a helpful cross reference being John 7:38-39: "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
 

TryingToLearn

Puritan Board Freshman
I really appreciate Gregory Beale's insight for an illustration of this doctrine from his book on Revelation.

Revelation 22:1 "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."

The Holy Spirit is represented by the water of life, a helpful cross reference being John 7:38-39: "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
Lol, I love Beale and was searching trying to find anything he might have written on the issue. Thanks for this!
 

C. M. Sheffield

Puritan Board Senior
John 14:26
John 15:26
John 16:7
John 20:22

These are a few passages indicated that the Spirit proceeds from the Son as well as the Father.
I really appreciate Gregory Beale's insight for an illustration of this doctrine from his book on Revelation.

Revelation 22:1 "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."

The Holy Spirit is represented by the water of life, a helpful cross reference being John 7:38-39: "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"
Excellent. Thank you, gentlemen. To God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit be all praise and glory!
 

py3ak

Unshaven and anonymous
Staff member
You can also think about it in terms of the logic of personal relationships.

The distinctive quality of the Son is filiation. We know that he proceeds from the Father by way of generation. If the Holy Spirit proceeded from the Father only, how would he be any different from the Son? If he proceeded from the Father only through the Son, his only relationship to the Father would be mediated, which is incompatible with his deity. So in order for the Spirit to be a distinct person, it is necessary that he proceed from the Father and the Son.

In Richard of St. Victor's On the Trinity you can find a highly refined and very tightly argued elaboration of that argument, as Richard seeks to show that once you have believingly accepted the Athanasian Creed in the light of Scripture testimony, reason confirms that these things are necessarily so.
 

TryingToLearn

Puritan Board Freshman
John 14:26
John 15:26
John 16:7
John 20:22

These are a few passages indicated that the Spirit proceeds from the Son as well as the Father.
How do we know that these verses show that the Spirit proceeds from the Son and the Father in an ontological sense instead of just an economic one in the history of the Gospels? I certainly agree that these show this, I just don't know how to explain my own reasoning as to how I know this and I'd like to see someone try to defend the hermeneutics of this in order for me to get a grasp on how to defend this.
 

dildaysc

Puritan Board Sophomore
Not too long ago, I translated the relevant sections from De Moor's System:

 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
His argument is basically the reason why I believe it: what the economic Trinity does mirrors the immanent Trinity.

That's probably the best line of defense. The Trinitarian missions mirror the Trinitarian relations. To answer your question, you won't get a good "book-length" defense of it, and certainly not from a non-Catholic. The only ones who really deal with it are Catholics and EO, and that's usually when they tear each other apart.

Bruce McCormack has some good essays on them. I'll see if I can find them.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
John 14:26
John 15:26
John 16:7
John 20:22

These are a few passages indicated that the Spirit proceeds from the Son as well as the Father.

The Filioque teaches that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principium. Only JOhn 15:26 uses the word "proceeds" and there is specifically says the Spirit proceeds from the Father. It's not enough to work as a proof-text. In the other passages Jesus simply says he will send the Spirit. Jesus is speaking in his economy. It doesn't prove that the Spirit would be eternally proceeding from Jesus to the apostles. That's certainly not the case.

Further, we can't argue from "being sent" to "eternally proceeding," as Jesus was sent (cast, actually) the desert by the Holy Spirit, yet we don't believe Jesus eternally proceeds from the Spirit.

The best way to defend the Holy Spirit is to anchor the doctrine within the Trinitarian relations.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
Barth's use of the Filioque (not a fan of Barth, but he wrote more on it and better defended it than any conservative Reformed theologian today, to our much-deserved shame).

McCormack, Bruce L., and Thomas Joseph White. "Processions and missions: a point of convergence between Thomas Aquinas and Karl Barth." Thomas Aquinas and Karl Barth: An Unofficial Catholic-Protestant Dialogue (2013): 99-126. This is the ultimate essay on the topic. I can't find an online pdf, though.

PUGLIESE, Marl A. "How important is the Filioque for reformed orthodoxy?." The Westminster theological journal 66, no. 1 (2004): 159-177. His handling of the biblical text is weak, but he does a good job with the church fathers.

Daley, Brian E. "Revisiting the “Filioque”: Roots and Branches of an Old Debate." Pro Ecclesia 10, no. 1 (2001): 31-62.

Kieser, Ty. "Is the Filioque an Obstacle to a Pneumatologically Robust Christology?: A Response from Reformed Resources." Journal of Reformed Theology 12, no. 4 (2018): 394-412.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
Try to find the audio of McCormack's Kantzer lectures. You will learn more about the doctrine of God and Christology than you would in a million seminary classes. I learned my analytical method from him. I actually have the audio saved of some of them if anyone is interested. It might take me a few days. Here is a summary.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Clerk
Try to find the audio of McCormack's Kantzer lectures. You will learn more about the doctrine of God and Christology than you would in a million seminary classes. I learned my analytical method from him. I actually have the audio saved of some of them if anyone is interested. It might take me a few days. Here is a summary.

Here is the first lecture. Doesn't actually deal with Filioque, but in this lecture McCormack was one of the first to address the heresy of ESS.
https://soundcloud.com/carl-henry-5%2Fbruce-mccormack-kantzer-lectures-17
 

Regi Addictissimus

Completely sold out to the King
Here are some resources:

H. B. Swete - On the History of the Doctrine of the Procession of the Holy Spirit:


H. B. Swete -The Holy Spirit in the Ancient Church; A Study of Christian Teaching in the Age of the Fathers:


Gerald Bray - The Filioque Clause in History and Theology, Tyndale Bulletin:


Robert Letham discusses it quite a bit in his book, The Holy Trinity. He is also working on a book on the Holy Spirit in which I imagine he will discuss Filioque quite a bit.

Sinclair Ferguson discusses the topic in his book, The Holy Spirit.
 
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