Looking for feedback and thoughts

[SpurgeonFan1689]

I know that there are several discussions on these forums regarding “reformed friendly” seminaries but I really would appreciate some feedback from this community of believers. I’m going to share my thoughts to see how others view my situation. I tend to overthink things, so please be patient.

I am a bivocational Baptist pastor at a southern baptist church. I myself am reformed. I am at a situation in my life where Money is tight. I really feel led to continue my seminary education and pursue a M.Div. I am seriously considering TNARS, it is a legit program, reformed and has a great price (Free). I am very impressed.

However, there is part of me that has trouble at the idea of pouring my time and energy into this program and it not being regionally accredited through the Higher learning commission or by the Association of Theological Schools. If I wanted to go further one day to a Doctorate or transfer credits to another degree program at an accredited institution, I would have to start all over. I know that a question I have to ask myself is “what do I intend to do with this program and what do I need it for.”

I want to learn more, I want to go deeper, and I realize that a program doesn’t have to be accredited for it to be of value to me. I can learn just as much if not more and have a better overall experience at a school that isn’t accredited than that of one that is. But it seems to me that there is a viewpoint out there that exists that has told me that a degree from an unaccredited school is “worth the paper it’s printed on.”

I realize that we cannot become to concerned about academia and what people think, however I still want to show and study myself approved and make sure that the degree I choose will open the right doors. I known you might be thinking, “just get a degree from a southern baptist seminary.” It really is discouraging when you start adding it all up and I don’t want to put my family 15 grand in debt so I can’t feel better about my degree.

To sum it up: am I putting too much emphasis on accreditation? Am I correct when I am concerned about unaccredited curriculums? If I learn from a unaccredited school and become better equipped to love and feed Christ’s sheep, does it really matter? Are here any other seminaries I should consider?

In Christ,

Robert

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[Taylor]

I will let others weigh in more, but the older I get (and the longer I’ve been out of seminary, which hasn’t been long), the more skeptical I become regarding accreditation for seminaries. I don’t have time now, but I have a few resources I could send you.

 

[Regi Addictissimus]

I know that there are several discussions on these forums regarding “reformed friendly” seminaries but I really would appreciate some feedback from this community of believers. I’m going to share my thoughts to see how others view my situation. I tend to overthink things, so please be patient.

I am a bivocational Baptist pastor at a southern baptist church. I myself am reformed. I am at a situation in my life where Money is tight. I really feel led to continue my seminary education and pursue a M.Div. I am seriously considering TNARS, it is a legit program, reformed and has a great price (Free). I am very impressed.

However, there is part of me that has trouble at the idea of pouring my time and energy into this program and it not being regionally accredited through the Higher learning commission or by the Association of Theological Schools. If I wanted to go further one day to a Doctorate or transfer credits to another degree program at an accredited institution, I would have to start all over. I know that a question I have to ask myself is “what do I intend to do with this program and what do I need it for.”

I want to learn more, I want to go deeper, and I realize that a program doesn’t have to be accredited for it to be of value to me. I can learn just as much if not more and have a better overall experience at a school that isn’t accredited than that of one that is. But it seems to me that there is a viewpoint out there that exists that has told me that a degree from an unaccredited school is “worth the paper it’s printed on.”

I realize that we cannot become to concerned about academia and what people think, however I still want to show and study myself approved and make sure that the degree I choose will open the right doors. I known you might be thinking, “just get a degree from a southern baptist seminary.” It really is discouraging when you start adding it all up and I don’t want to put my family 15 grand in debt so I can’t feel better about my degree.

To sum it up: am I putting too much emphasis on accreditation? Am I correct when I am concerned about unaccredited curriculums? If I learn from a unaccredited school and become better equipped to love and feed Christ’s sheep, does it really matter? Are here any other seminaries I should consider?

In Christ,

Robert

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I too am interested in responses as I considered TNARS for a long time. My funds are also incredibly tight.

 

[fredtgreco]

Isn't Southern nearly free for Southern Baptists? Especially a pastor of an SBC church?

 

[SpurgeonFan1689]

Only a discount for southern baptists, it’s still around 300 per credit hour


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[dave knott]

I am a B.DIV. student at TNARS. the B.DIV. the course is the same as the M.DIV.
I took the B.DIV. because of my age (61).
It has better courses than the P.R.B.S. or the D.O.R.D.T. seminary (both free).
however, D.O.R.D.T. has a 6-12 month delay in accepting new students.

 

[iainduguid]

Accreditation doesn't make a school "good" (especially when our definition of "good" includes all kinds of theological qualifiers) but most good schools are accredited. Not having accreditation doesn't make a school a fly by night, diploma mill, but most fly by night diploma mills are unaccredited.

What this means is that accreditation is one issue among many you should be thinking about. It is especially important if you want to do further studies, but it also provides an external stamp of quality approval on the systems and processes of the school. It says that the school is unlikely to go bust during your studies, and that an "A" from that school means something significant (again, depending on the school, it could be a totally heretical A, but it represents meaningful academic work).

In addition to whether you may want to do further study in the future you should think about other factors. For example:
1) How important is personal access to meet and be stimulated by great professors?
2) How important is gaining friendship with like minded students, with whom you may keep in touch for the rest of your life?
3) How good are you at motivating yourself and teaching yourself new things?

You generally only get one shot at theological education, so it is a great investment to get the best education that you can. I turned down a full ride + living allowance scholarship at Edinburgh University to pay my own way through the MDiv at Westminster. I've never for a moment regretted that decision, though it meant my wife working to support me for the first two years and working full time and studying full time for the last two. I wanted to study with professors I respected in a challenging academic environment, with peers from all over the world who were pursuing the same thing.

I don't think that choice, which I think of as the gold standard, is ideal or possible for everyone. There are settings where online or correspondence courses are all that is possible. If someone is a great self-teacher, evidenced by the fact that every free moment is spent in a book, even when there is no class that they are enrolled for, and they naturally grasp the main points of what they are reading, then you can get a great education that way. Language learning is especially difficult on your own, but there have been some great auto-didacts in the past who have managed it, and there are more online resources than ever. But it is challenging to succeed in a non-traditional format. You have to be highly motivated, especially if you are adding that to ministry.

For non-accredited programs, you have to be your own accreditor. Questions you should be asking are:
1) what do people I respect think of this program?
2) Is it financially viable? If it isn't charging anything, do the people involved get paid? If not, how much time do they have to give to me? Do they keep good records, so that other people can later confirm that I got a degree from them? Will they still be around in 10 years, or is this one person's vision?
3) What sort of materials and support do they provide? Is it simply a list of books to read and some exams that they grade? Or is there genuine mentoring going on?
4) How long will it take me to complete? Am I prepared for the commitment over the long haul? Is my family supportive?

Of course, for a free (or even low cost) program, there is no harm in testing the water by taking a class or two. It will help you personally even if you go on to do accredited study and can't transfer it, and after two classes you will have a sense of how well it suits you. But don't miss question 1 above, whether the program you are considering is accredited or unaccredited - you should always find someone with recent information (less than five years old), since institutions change rapidly and continuously, for better and for worse.

Just a few thoughts to help you along.

 

[SpurgeonFan1689]

Thanks for your input everyone. Please pray God will give me the peace to hold on to the fact that it’s all already figured out!


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[Jonathan R]

I would highly recommend Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary out of Owensboro, KY. They are solidly confessional and quite inexpensive. Concerning accreditation, they are in the process of obtaining it. But accreditation or not, the quality of the education is wonderful.

SRC: Audited a few classes in person and online. Love the home church of the seminary.

 

[Polanus1561]

a Whitefield Mdiv is cheap and is eligible for a doctorate at RTS / PRTS

 

[NoutheticCounselor]

I would highly recommend Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary out of Owensboro, KY. They are solidly confessional and quite inexpensive. Concerning accreditation, they are in the process of obtaining it. But accreditation or not, the quality of the education is wonderful.

SRC: Audited a few classes in person and online. Love the home church of the seminary.

I am a current student at CBTS and love it. They are in the process of getting accreditation through ARTS. From their website:

"
ASSOCIATION OF REFORMED THEOLOGICAL SEMINARIES

We are pleased to announce that the ARTS Commission on Accreditation has voted to move CBTS forward from Applicant status to Candidate status toward accreditation at their annual meeting this October! We are continuing the challenging task of assuring compliance and hope with a great deal of diligence and strength from our risen Lord to gain accreditation status in Fall 2019."

 

[ArminianOnceWas]

a Whitefield Mdiv is cheap and is eligible for a doctorate at RTS / PRTS

I would think that individuals may be considered for the D.Min programs at certain schools, this is a case by case basis that takes in consideration undergrad records as well as M.Div records and performance on placement testing. I don't think any ATS school will be able to permit a Whitefield graduate into anything but a professional degree, so a Ph.D. or Th.D would not be an option.

 

[Roger D Duke]

I know that there are several discussions on these forums regarding “reformed friendly” seminaries but I really would appreciate some feedback from this community of believers. I’m going to share my thoughts to see how others view my situation. I tend to overthink things, so please be patient.

I am a bivocational Baptist pastor at a southern baptist church. I myself am reformed. I am at a situation in my life where Money is tight. I really feel led to continue my seminary education and pursue a M.Div. I am seriously considering TNARS, it is a legit program, reformed and has a great price (Free). I am very impressed.

However, there is part of me that has trouble at the idea of pouring my time and energy into this program and it not being regionally accredited through the Higher learning commission or by the Association of Theological Schools. If I wanted to go further one day to a Doctorate or transfer credits to another degree program at an accredited institution, I would have to start all over. I know that a question I have to ask myself is “what do I intend to do with this program and what do I need it for.”

I want to learn more, I want to go deeper, and I realize that a program doesn’t have to be accredited for it to be of value to me. I can learn just as much if not more and have a better overall experience at a school that isn’t accredited than that of one that is. But it seems to me that there is a viewpoint out there that exists that has told me that a degree from an unaccredited school is “worth the paper it’s printed on.”

I realize that we cannot become to concerned about academia and what people think, however I still want to show and study myself approved and make sure that the degree I choose will open the right doors. I known you might be thinking, “just get a degree from a southern baptist seminary.” It really is discouraging when you start adding it all up and I don’t want to put my family 15 grand in debt so I can’t feel better about my degree.

To sum it up: am I putting too much emphasis on accreditation? Am I correct when I am concerned about unaccredited curriculums? If I learn from a unaccredited school and become better equipped to love and feed Christ’s sheep, does it really matter? Are here any other seminaries I should consider?

In Christ,

Robert

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Hello Robert,

Take if from a guy who is out the other side of things. I came to ministry late, I was 30 with a small child and one on the way. I ended up doing 4 theological degrees in my 40s and 50s in order to teach. And you can do it. I was blest to graduate from Southern after Al Mohler became president. I wanted to teach at college or seminary and had to have the necessary paper work. Take my word for it you will not be sorry if you do the whole deal and get an MDiv from The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. It is a like minded and rigorous place to study. You will know something when you come out. Plus your discipline for education and ministry will be enhances 1000% percent.

The long and the short of it is, I did get my doctorate from a liberal university outside the Convention and ended up teaching 20+ years at colleges and grad schools. I have also been able to publish and write. I never would have had that opportunity had I not paid the price. Remember the call to preach is the call to prepare. I have an Amazon authors page if you are interested? Not trying to sell books just trying to get you to understand that if you pay the price on the front end dividends are great on the back end! DV.

I have since retired and have formed a consulting firm that allows me to preach, teach, research, and write. And believe you me, I have more to do that I can get done. Personal testimony...

This is of course my two cents worth!

sdg!

rd

 

[SpurgeonFan1689]

Thanks so much for all of your input. It is appreciated and means a lot.


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