Looking For Reformed Church in Tucson AZ/Implications of Regulative Principle

[JesseC]

My current church is having its last meeting this coming Sunday and I am greatly struggling with where to go from here. I am looking for a church with solid preaching from a reformed perspective but am also concerned to find a place where the music is led in accordance to God's word. I have been attempting to gain a clearer understanding of the regulative principle and have read some of the forums on this board where people have posted on this in its relationship to exclusive psalmody. From the posts I read I have gathered that those who support the use of hymns while adhering to the regulative principle would understand Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16 as referring to different types of songs (psalms and hymns) while those who practice exclusive psalmody would see them as referring to different sections of the Psalter. Honestly at this point I have not had a chance to study this enough to come to a firm conviction on either position, although I am sad to say that I have rarely been in church services where Psalms were sung with any regularity.

Up to this point since becoming a Christian I have almost always been in churches which sang hymns with only minimal instrumental accompaniment (piano). From the standpoint of the regulative principle if the interpretation of exclusive psalmody is correct even this would be going too far by worshipping God in a way He has not appointed. As I said, I am not entirely sure on this point yet, but I am troubled by what I do see in most of the reformed churches in my area as me and my wife look for a new church. From what I am aware of most sing not only the more traditional hymns but also contemporary music with multiple instruments being used to accompany them. I am almost certain there are no exclusive psalmody churches within our driving range. And I don't really know of many good options even when just looking for a more traditional service with hymns without a lot of instrumental accompaniment (I am not comfortable going somewhere that turns worship into something akin to entertainment or a concert).

So I am trying to discern how much weight this should have on determining the church we attend. Given there are no options that are exclusive psalmody (I live in Tucson, AZ) that is something I haven't thought too deeply about. There is an OPC church that would sing a mix of hymns and psalms, but they meet in a Seventh Day Adventist Church which I honestly don't feel entirely comfortable with. I would be willing even to drive an hour plus but still haven't been able to find many hopeful options. So I'm trying to determine what acceptable options I have. I am not wanting to worship God in a false or disobedient manner. But I also don't think it would be right not to go to any church since I can't find one that I feel entirely comfortable with. I would appreciate any advice on this. Thank you.

 

[SeanPatrickCornell]

How about Tucson Reformed Baptist church?

 

[OldSchoolPresbyterian]

There is an RPCNA church in Phoenix. Is that too far for you?

 

[JesseC]

Phoenix would be a bit over 2 hours for me which might be a bit far. We have a 15 month old so driving over 4 hours in one day with her would be tough.

 

[SeanPatrickCornell]

There is an RPCNA church in Phoenix. Is that too far for you?

The RPCNA church in Phoenix is moribund anyway. It's teetering on the edge of disbanding, last I heard.

 

[Solparvus]

The RPCNA church in Phoenix is moribund anyway. It's teetering on the edge of disbanding, last I heard.

Do indeed pray. Very needed.

 

[TheInquirer]

My personal belief is the lyrics need to be in accordance with Scripture and the style to actually facilitate worship from the congregation and not be so loud to drown them out, nor be distracting to worship or self-glorifying.

I don’t get exclusive psalmody - why would God limit us to only singing certain parts of His word and not the fullness of His revelation? Which psalm are the heavenly beings singing in Revelation? (Are they breaking the RP or do they have different rules we can’t follow?) And I really don’t get exclusive psalmody and no instruments when the psalms themselves have instruments all over the place - seems very self-contradictory.

My point is this - there are many views in how the Regulative Principle is applied and the Reformed world is not in full agreement and never has been.

 

[Sam Jer]

My current church is having its last meeting this coming Sunday and I am greatly struggling with where to go from here. I am looking for a church with solid preaching from a reformed perspective but am also concerned to find a place where the music is led in accordance to God's word. I have been attempting to gain a clearer understanding of the regulative principle and have read some of the forums on this board where people have posted on this in its relationship to exclusive psalmody. From the posts I read I have gathered that those who support the use of hymns while adhering to the regulative principle would understand Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16 as referring to different types of songs (psalms and hymns) while those who practice exclusive psalmody would see them as referring to different sections of the Psalter. Honestly at this point I have not had a chance to study this enough to come to a firm conviction on either position, although I am sad to say that I have rarely been in church services where Psalms were sung with any regularity.

Up to this point since becoming a Christian I have almost always been in churches which sang hymns with only minimal instrumental accompaniment (piano). From the standpoint of the regulative principle if the interpretation of exclusive psalmody is correct even this would be going too far by worshipping God in a way He has not appointed. As I said, I am not entirely sure on this point yet, but I am troubled by what I do see in most of the reformed churches in my area as me and my wife look for a new church. From what I am aware of most sing not only the more traditional hymns but also contemporary music with multiple instruments being used to accompany them. I am almost certain there are no exclusive psalmody churches within our driving range. And I don't really know of many good options even when just looking for a more traditional service with hymns without a lot of instrumental accompaniment (I am not comfortable going somewhere that turns worship into something akin to entertainment or a concert).

So I am trying to discern how much weight this should have on determining the church we attend. Given there are no options that are exclusive psalmody (I live in Tucson, AZ) that is something I haven't thought too deeply about. There is an OPC church that would sing a mix of hymns and psalms, but they meet in a Seventh Day Adventist Church which I honestly don't feel entirely comfortable with. I would be willing even to drive an hour plus but still haven't been able to find many hopeful options. So I'm trying to determine what acceptable options I have. I am not wanting to worship God in a false or disobedient manner. But I also don't think it would be right not to go to any church since I can't find one that I feel entirely comfortable with. I would appreciate any advice on this. Thank you.

I would probably still consider the one two hours away (perhaps God will use that along a few other people to preserve the church?), but if it is too far, why not reach out to the best Reformed churches that are close to you, tell them your worries, and see which ones are understanding and would be okay with you not singing unless and until you can do so with a clean concience?
I'd argue that the quality of preaching is actually more important than the singing.

 

[py3ak]

they meet in a Seventh Day Adventist Church which I honestly don't feel entirely comfortable with.

I'm sorry your church is closing down. That is always a difficult situation for the members.

Using a building that is otherwise unused on the Lord's Day is not a good reason to cross a church off your list of potential places to attend. We can't allow "entirely comfortable" to become the standard. It's hard to think of which NT church one would have felt entirely comfortable with.

 

[Northern Crofter]

those who practice exclusive psalmody would see them as referring to different sections of the Psalter.

More accurately it would be referring to different types of psalms (often mentioned in the prefaces to individual psalms like "A psalm of David," [Ps.3] or "a song of love to give instruction" [Ps.45]) - if you cross-reference those terms in a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, you will find they are the same words Paul used.

I don’t get exclusive psalmody - why would God limit us to only singing certain parts of His word and not the fullness of His revelation?

Why wouldn't He? The Church did not sing Leviticus in the previous dispensation of grace, so why would we now? Why wouldn't God provide us with the songs He would like us to sing to Him?

 

[John Nyberg]

Proverbs 3:5-6 warns us against making much of our own understanding and instructs us to wholeheartedly trust in the Lord. The decision to join a new church should be a careful, thoughtful process. However, it should not be without heartfelt, earnest supplication. Trust in the Lord with all your heart, brother! Your heavenly Father will lead you to the local body in which you belong. You may have to give up your own understanding regarding tertiary issues.

 

[cthorn14]

I pray that the Lord would guide you to a faithful congregation and give your family endurance during that time.

Regarding EP, what has most convinced me of the sufficiency of the Psalms for Christian worship has been to sing them regularly in public and private worship.

Not attempting to dissuade you from attending the OPC, but in my limited experience visiting congregations in that denomination, there has been at maximum one psalm per service. So it is worth looking into their practice.

 

[Jake]

My in-laws live in Tucson area and when there it's been hard to find a good church. Tucson RP Church is no longer (my wife attended there for a reason and I've visited as well). The best option we've found is Covenant OPC in Tucson. It's solid enough but when we were there they didn't sing any Psalms and I'm not sure what the situation is with their pastor. It's also quite far from my in-laws who live on the NW side of Tucson. I think I heard one of the former elders of the RP church in Tucson worships at the Tucson Reformed Baptist Church.

 

[Edward]

There is an OPC church that would sing a mix of hymns and psalms, but they meet in a Seventh Day Adventist Church which I honestly don't feel entirely comfortable with.

First, the SDA location is a non-issue. The church is the people, not the building. We aren't Catholics or others that sanctify a structure. I've worshiped in SDA buildings, community colleges, hotels, schools, and even a basketball arena at SMU.

Second, OPC churches are almost always theologically solid. PCA churches can be more of a mixed bag. Looks like there are several in the Tucson area. So use some discernment, one plus is that because they can be a little looser, they may be an easier fit for a Reformed Baptist. Many would be happy to have you so long as you don't stir up conflict over infant baptism.

As far as exclusive psalmody, there are plenty of threads on that and some strong feelings on both sides on that here on the PB, so that issue should probably be reserved to that forum.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Always ask the session how they would treat any views you hold; there are at least a few OPC churches that take an onerous view of the fifth membership vow with regard to singing. If you have children, there may be also some that would insist eventually you have to come around on baptism. So, always get a clear understanding up front how your views will be treated.