Luke 11:23 Throwing Mountains into the Sea

[Eoghan]

I cant quite get my head round this verse. I cannot really think of any need a christian might have to move a mountain. Unless of course he works for the highway department?

What is the underlying principle and why choose something like a mountain?

There is a hill behind our house which prevents us getting a sea view!

 

[reformedminister]

The underlying principle behind this verse is that there is nothing impossible for God, for He is omnipotent, all powerful. Through faith, and the power of prayer we can see mountains removed in our lives (impossible circumstances: Ex. David and Goliath). However, we must pray according to the will of God.

 

[PresbyDane]

I think there is something wrong with my danish bible in Luke 11,23 in my bible it says something about "The one that is not for me is against me, and something about when you have driven out evil spirits"

I found it in Mark 11,23

And I think that the point is that he does not say any old mountain, he says THIS mountain, him looking at the temple mount, I heard a sermon or a lecture on this resently, can not remember the point excactly but it was something about the old ways contra the arrival of new ways with the belief in Jesus. (if I am not completly mistaken)

 

[Eoghan]

Interested that it might have been one mountain in particular that was meant!

 

[Jack K]

I think that the point is that he does not say any old mountain, he says THIS mountain, him looking at the temple mount, I heard a sermon or a lecture on this resently, can not remember the point excactly but it was something about the old ways contra the arrival of new ways with the belief in Jesus. (if I am not completly mistaken)

I've heard this explanation, too. And I like the idea. But... a similar comment in Matthew (17:20-21) has Jesus apparently referring to the mount of transfiguration. So as much as I like the Temple Mount idea, I have to conclude Jesus just took mountains in general to be a good illustration for discussing the power of faith.

What is the underlying principle and why choose something like a mountain? Well, it's unlikely anyone will have occasion to move an actual mountain for Jesus. The point is that the man of faith ought to have confidence that all things on earth, even if they are as imposing as mountains, are subject to the Creator and to his agents on earth—those to whom he gives faith. Such is the bond between the man of faith and the Creator!

 

[py3ak]

[KJV]Zechariah 4:7[/KJV] may provide some helpful OT background.

 

[Turtle]

Call for faith in God, in an object lesson

In Mk 11:23 Jesus speaks of His own confidence in what is to be His, and uses that as the basis for His disciples to also have faith. The passage gives a strong argument to have faith in God.. the certain "removal of the mountain" (as foretold by Isaiah and others) is the capstone of the argument, especially when taken in view of the unfruitful tree and the lofty chief priests (Mk 11:13-23).

The argument is from the lessor to the greater, and refers back to old testament prophecies(Mk 11:17, Is.56:7). Jesus cursed the unfruitful tree and in just one day it was withered to the roots. With this object lesson (of the lessor) in immediate view to the disciples, Jesus then made the comparison (of the greater) and showed them that the Chief priests were in greater trouble than the tree. Just as the unfruitful tree is perished, so too the Chief Priests are marked for destruction. The disciples appear to have reason to fear the chief priests since their lives are now in danger because Jesus enraged the chief priests to the point that they wanted to destroy Him, because of what he taught (Mk 11:18). However, Jesus shows He has set aside any fear of men when He speaks of the mountain. By this reference to prophecy He points out to the disciples that the very reason the chief priests want to kill Him is the very same reason that they should have faith in God. It is the reason He has courage.

Jesus enraged the chief priests when He referred to Isaiah to show He came to save the outcasts and lowly, and He opposes the lofty and prideful. The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up;..And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up,.. the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day."

The disciples were supposed to observe that Jesus spoke words against the tree and it came to be. In the same way, they were to observe that He had spoken words against the chief priests and He would certainly see those words from Isaiah and the prophets also come to pass. On this basis the disciples were to have faith in God, for "it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people".. He will rend the heavens and the mountains will flow down at His presence, the waters will boil, the nations will tremble, and none has imagined or perceived what He has prepared for them that wait for Him.

Ps. 46 is a prefect summary.

 

[KaphLamedh]

Jesus used parables. The parable about the mustard seed for example.

 

[Turtle]

Jesus used parables. The parable about the mustard seed for example.

I don't think the reference to the mountain being cast into the sea was in anyway a parable. It was a literal comparison of literal events.

Jesus compares literal events of the past that occurred according to His words in order to prove the reliability of His word to predict future literal events.

Peter noticed the effect of Jesus' words of judgment on the tree. Jesus then used this point of departure to set it along side prophesies that He spoke of from Isaiah in the temple as He cast out the money changers. Isaiah predicts the mountains being cast down (or into the sea) in conjunction with the judgment in the Lord's return. In this comparison of literal events, the disciples are given a reasonable basis to have faith in God. The tree was destroyed according to the Lord's words, so too will the scribes and chief priests be destroyed along with the mountain.

It is the same construction as in 2 Peter 2. Peter argues to strengthen our faith by pointing to the literal flood, and the literal destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha (that were spoken of beforehand )and points out Lot was delivered. So too is God able to deliver the godly and at the same time reserve the ungodly to judgment (as is also spoken ahead of time).

Its the same argument construction of 2 Peter 3:5-7.. Peter compares literal events of the past that occurred by the word of the Lord to prove the reliability of future literal events that will occur as the Lord predicts. The wicked are willfully ignorant that by the word of the Lord the earth was formed out of the water, by His word the earth was destroyed by the flood, and by His same "word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men."

In Mk 11, Jesus' words were reliable concerning the destruction of the tree. So too His words that He taught from Isaiah were also reliable, therefore have faith in God. In other words, the reference to the mountain being cast into the sea is a pointer to the prophecies concerning His return and victory.

If that mountain He pointed to is not going to literally be cast into the sea at His return then he should have just asked His disciples to imagine a figurative tree with a figurative set of roots that figuratively dried up.

 

[Peairtach]

See also Revelation 8:8 -8:9 in a historical preterist context.

Also see how Josephus describes the Temple Mount by the time the Romans were finished with it.

Also see the Gospel passages on Jesus cursing the fig tree, which is also believed to symbolise the Jewish Church, and which also has references to the exercise of faith.

So these passages teach us

(a) About the importance of exercising faith against apparently insurmountable "odds"

(b) About the coming judgment of the then Church-Nation of God.

 

[Turtle]

A figurative expression?

See also Revelation 8:8 -8:9 in a historical preterist context.

Also see how Josephus describes the Temple Mount by the time the Romans were finished with it.

Also see the Gospel passages on Jesus cursing the fig tree, which is also believed to symbolise the Jewish Church, and which also has references to the exercise of faith.

So these passages teach us

(a) About the importance of exercising faith against apparently insurmountable "odds"

(b) About the coming judgment of the then Church-Nation of God.

This appears to be a suggestion that the mountain cast into the sea is a figurative expression that finds its fulfillment in the destruction of 70 AD.

 

[Eoghan]

At the back of my mind is tyhe little chorus "faith that can move mountains". It has a catchy tune, expresses confidence in our Saviour but ...

...seems to be founded on faulty exegesis.

 

[Peairtach]

See also Revelation 8:8 -8:9 in a historical preterist context.

Also see how Josephus describes the Temple Mount by the time the Romans were finished with it.

Also see the Gospel passages on Jesus cursing the fig tree, which is also believed to symbolise the Jewish Church, and which also has references to the exercise of faith.

So these passages teach us

(a) About the importance of exercising faith against apparently insurmountable "odds"

(b) About the coming judgment of the then Church-Nation of God.

This appears to be a suggestion that the mountain cast into the sea is a figurative expression that finds its fulfillment in the destruction of 70 AD.

Yes. But I don't dispute what you say, that there will be a lot of changes to the earth and cosmos when our Lord returns at the end of time. Nor that someone could have enough faith that a literal mountain was going to move if God revealed to him/her that He was going to do it.

But on balance, I think that "the mountain" here that was standing in the way of Christian growth between AD 30 and AD 70 was the Jewish religion and polity. It is also a lesson about the exercise of faith.

I may be wrong but it's something to think about in the context of these passages, as a possibility. Don't forget to read Josephus. His accounts can be fascinating in the light of parts of the NT.

 

[a mere housewife]

Would this also echo Psalm 46:2 in a different way -- faith can not only stand when the mountains are shaken, it is actually instrumental in their displacement?