Lutheran Doctrine of Election

[Justified]

What exactly is the Lutheran doctrine of election? More specifically, what is it an election unto? I've asked some of my Lutheran friends before, and they seem rather mushy on it. Most of the time they'll say that all Christians are elect (I agree), but then Lutheran's obviously believe that a Christian can fall away from grace. Therefore, it would seem to follow that the election isn't ultimately unto glory, but an election of some initial salvation, though not unto final perseverance. Am I understanding this correctly? Perhaps the more learned of the PB can enlighten me.

 

[MW]

Lutheranism depends on the possibility of real, unresolved paradox. What does that allow? Efficacious grace which is universal. No double predestination. A justified person who can fall away. Calvinists cannot understand it because they accept that renewed and sanctified reason serves in the ministerial role of understanding the revelation of God, and this includes a basic commitment to non-contradiction.

 

[Justified]

Lutheranism depends on the possibility of real, unresolved paradox. What does that allow? Efficacious grace which is universal. No double predestination. A justified person who can fall away. Calvinists cannot understand it because they accept that renewed and sanctified reason serves in the ministerial role of understanding the revelation of God, and this includes a basic commitment to non-contradiction.

So their view of election is just an unresolved paradox? This doesn't surprise me, although what I deduced above seems like the logical corollary given their view of apostasy and what I could glean from their doctrine of election.

 

[MW]

although what I deduced above seems like the logical corollary

Calvinists can see all kinds of rational deductions in the Lutheran system, but they will tell you they believe it because Scripture says it; and when Scripture is thought to say contradictory things they choose Scripture contradiction over rational coherence. They do not see that they have used reason in the first place to arrive at what they claim Scripture says.

 

[SRoper]

Lutherans say we are rationalists on grace and election, and we say they are rationalists on the real presence.

 

[Philip]

The Lutheran insistence that the Reformed are rationalists on the real presence has always struck me as odd, given that we usually prefer to say what the real presence is not rather than what it is.

Rev. Winzer, your description of Lutheran theology sounds a lot like Barth's doctrine of election as applied to individuals.

 

[MW]

Rev. Winzer, your description of Lutheran theology sounds a lot like Barth's doctrine of election as applied to individuals.

Barth's view contained reprobation, but both election and reprobation were raised to a cosmic level, whereas the Lutherans affirm individual election but deny individual reprobation. Also Barth's dialectic was more philosophical in terms of the wholly other. He was closer to the reformed view of archetypal theology but then moved farther away when it came to ectypal theology.

 

[DMcFadden]

Barth's election and reprobation is, like his theology generally, christomonistic. Christ is both the elected and reprobated one.

 

[Philip]

Barth's election and reprobation is, like his theology generally, christomonistic. Christ is both the elected and reprobated one.

That's correct on the cosmic level, but it then allows him to claim that all are elect in Christ, even though some (may) paradoxically reject their election (II.2, 35, I believe, is the reference on that). I don't deny that his theology is maddeningly christomonistic.

 

[DMcFadden]

although what I deduced above seems like the logical corollary

Calvinists can see all kinds of rational deductions in the Lutheran system, but they will tell you they believe it because Scripture says it; and when Scripture is thought to say contradictory things they choose Scripture contradiction over rational coherence. They do not see that they have used reason in the first place to arrive at what they claim Scripture says.

As always, Pastor Winzer is pithy and accurate in his assessment. However, from the other side of the Reformation, the claim would not be that reason is an inappropriate tool (obviously reason is involved in exegetical and theological analysis). Lutherans would say that they "believe, teach, and confess" what the Bible says, even when it compels accepting some paradoxes as incapable of penultimate resolution into our "through a glass darkly" "this side of the eschaton" system. Privileging the sovereignty of God as a supreme organizing principle will always give Reformed thought a hands down advantage over Lutheran dogmatics at the level of rational coherence. Dortian Calvinism has an almost mathematical elegance to it. Everything fits neatly in place in a way that no other Christian worldview does.

 

[Toasty]

What exactly is the Lutheran doctrine of election? More specifically, what is it an election unto? I've asked some of my Lutheran friends before, and they seem rather mushy on it. Most of the time they'll say that all Christians are elect (I agree), but then Lutheran's obviously believe that a Christian can fall away from grace. Therefore, it would seem to follow that the election isn't ultimately unto glory, but an election of some initial salvation, though not unto final perseverance. Am I understanding this correctly? Perhaps the more learned of the PB can enlighten me.

Lutherans believe that God chose certain people to save and God's choice is not determined by anything outside of Himself.