Lying and the Nazis at your door

[RamistThomist]

A moral action requires three things:

1) obedience to a norm
2) proper motive
3) understanding the situation properly

Stealing is wrong, but in wartime I will steal information.
Killing is wrong, but in wartime I will kill

 

[Davidius]

A moral action requires three things:

1) obedience to a norm
2) proper motive
3) understanding the situation properly

Stealing is wrong, but in wartime I will steal information.
Killing is wrong, but in wartime I will kill

Adultery is wrong, and in wartime you will commit adultery to get information? You should change the variable to something that isn't in the category which everyone knows "in their common sense" is okay during wartime.

The Jews had to offer sacrifices for sins of ignorance, didn't they?

 

[RamistThomist]

A moral action requires three things:

1) obedience to a norm
2) proper motive
3) understanding the situation properly

Stealing is wrong, but in wartime I will steal information.
Killing is wrong, but in wartime I will kill

Adultery is wrong, and in wartime you will commit adultery to get information? You should change the variable to something that isn't in the category which everyone knows "in their common sense" is okay during wartime.

The Jews had to offer sacrifices for sins of ignorance, didn't they?

Is killing in wartime legit? Maybe. Instead of adultery, let's say "make love to wife." That is honorable but if I do it for the wrong motive (to get something, bribe, power) it is sin. If I do it in the wrong situation (where it damages her health, etc).

Moral theology, and the Bible, does reason this way:

1. We must walk according to the commandments (God's word--our normative perspective)
2. We must have the the proper telos (we must seek the kingdom/glory of God; do all things to the glory of God) situational perspective
3. We must have the proper motive (love, a heart purified by faith--our existential perspective ).

 

[VictorBravo]

Wrap it up


I think this thread has pretty much run its course. So many issues and diversions have been raised, and we are on at least the second or third rehash of unanswered questions.

If anyone is interested in continuing the subdiscussions, feel free to open threads on the specific issues.

Closing the thread in 15 minutes. . . .

Edit: BTW, this isn't a negative comment on any of the recent posts. It's just a matter of the thread spreading out into too many directions.

 

[BertMulder]

Thanks Vic

 

[BertMulder]

Moral theology, and the Bible, does reason this way:

1. We must walk according to the commandments (God's word--our normative perspective)
2. We must have the the proper telos (we must seek the kingdom/glory of God; do all things to the glory of God) situational perspective
3. We must have the proper motive (love, a heart purified by faith--our existential perspective ).

And that ain't multiple choice, but AND AND AND