MacArthur on Covenant Theology

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I agree on the physical land blessings, but the Jewish people still appear to have future spiritual blessings involving the Second Coming of Christ.

Are you speaking of a future widespread conversion among ethnic Jews?
 
yes, at the time of the Second Coming of Christ.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-3

"But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

Matthew 24:48-51

"48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."


So you think that when Jesus comes back, ethnic Jews are going to have a chance to repent and believe? Where do you get this in scripture?
 
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1 Thessalonians 5:1-3

"But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

Matthew 24:48-51

"48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."


So you think that when Jesus comes back, ethnic Jews are going to have a chance to repent and believe? Where do you get this in scripture?
Zechariah 12:10
 
Is this not fulfilled in John 19:37 ?
I think it could well be said that this text prophesies the piercing of Messiah, but that there is some sort of later act also implied, namely that of their mourning.

The question to follow would be: does the event of Pentecost, or some other time or event or process of response (past or still future) correlate?
 
Are you speaking of a future widespread conversion among ethnic Jews?
So you think that when Jesus comes back, ethnic Jews are going to have a chance to repent and believe? Where do you get this in scripture?

For my own part, I don't at all believe that the Jews will undergo a mass conversion at the time of Christ's return; but I do believe that they will be converted.

The clearest passage on this is Romans 11:
23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
 
For my own part, I don't at all believe that the Jews will undergo a mass conversion at the time of Christ's return; but I do believe that they will be converted.

The clearest passage on this is Romans 11:
When people speak of a mass conversion at Christ's return, it makes no sense to me. From my understanding, if you are not a believer when Jesus comes back, there is no other chance.

I will grant that the Scriptures do allow for some kind of mass conversion before the end...but not at the end. There is a big difference.

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I think it could well be said that this text prophesies the piercing of Messiah, but that there is some sort of later act also implied, namely that of their mourning.

The question to follow would be: does the event of Pentecost, or some other time or event or process of response (past or still future) correlate?
Are you speaking of when the people were "cut to the heart" after hearing Peter's sermon?

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Are you speaking of when the people were "cut to the heart" after hearing Peter's sermon?
I wasn't thinking of that specific text (though it sure makes a striking verbal parallel, doesn't it?). Only that many thousands of Jews (a remnant, but still a host) did, in fact, turn in faith to Christ in the aftermath of his death.

The generation that killed Jesus--not just a later generation of descendants, appalled at what they did, and cheered, ignored, failed to do, etc.--saw many people mourn repentantly for their sin. V10 states explicitly association of this moment to the outpouring of the Spirit, even upon Jerusalem.

The rest of that generation, the faithless of it, also mourned--regretfully, not repentantly--but still they mourned, because of the judgment of God that fell at the end of it, 40yrs later. Yet, I'm sure that the "mourning" that Zecharaiah mentions is the genuine kind, and stands in contrast to the tears of those found guilty and sentenced.
 
I think it could well be said that this text prophesies the piercing of Messiah, but that there is some sort of later act also implied, namely that of their mourning.

The question to follow would be: does the event of Pentecost, or some other time or event or process of response (past or still future) correlate?
I tie this into both Zechariah and Revelation 1:7, as see the Lord remembering His Promise to have all Israel saved and reborn when He returns again.
 
For my own part, I don't at all believe that the Jews will undergo a mass conversion at the time of Christ's return; but I do believe that they will be converted.

The clearest passage on this is Romans 11:
Also can tie into Acts 3:19-21
 
I tie this into both Zechariah and Revelation 1:7, as see the Lord remembering His Promise to have all Israel saved and reborn when He returns again.

"when he returns again"

Could you please clarify: does this mean that those ethnic Jews who are alive on the Day of the Lord will get a chance to see the Risen, glorified Christ, and then repent and believe? What about the non-Jews?
 
"when he returns again"

Could you please clarify: does this mean that those ethnic Jews who are alive on the Day of the Lord will get a chance to see the Risen, glorified Christ, and then repent and believe? What about the non-Jews?
there will be a great multitude saved by God from the time of Great tribulation, so a lot of this depends on ones eschatological framework. In my understanding, God is still saving in end of days, perhaps greatest harvesting in history.
 
there will be a great multitude saved by God from the time of Great tribulation, so a lot of this depends on ones eschatological framework. In my understanding, God is still saving in end of days, perhaps greatest harvesting in history.

I feel like you are coming from a dispensationalist side of things where Jesus will come back and reign for a literal 1000 years in literal Jerusalem. Correct me if I am wrong.

This makes no sense to me. Paul exhorts the Thessalonians that the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night and of "sudden destruction". That does not square with the idea that ascended, glorified Jesus comes back and then gives the ethnic Jews a chance to repent.
 
I feel like you are coming from a dispensationalist side of things where Jesus will come back and reign for a literal 1000 years in literal Jerusalem. Correct me if I am wrong.

This makes no sense to me. Paul exhorts the Thessalonians that the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night and of "sudden destruction". That does not square with the idea that ascended, glorified Jesus comes back and then gives the ethnic Jews a chance to repent.
Not the Dispensational viewpoint, but as one who holds to what a Spurgeon did, as in a premil Kingdom here on earth, and that God would have the Jews alive at the time of the Second Coming, whether during the time of the End, or at that event itself, be moved upon by the Holy Spirit to receive Jesus as their promised messiah and turn to Him.
 
With Tyler I cannot hold with a mass conversion of the Jews but there is an election of a remnant in every tongue and nation including the Jews. Thessalonians, to whom Paul writes to rectify a mistaken view of the last days is strangely silent on such a momentous notion. As to Romans there is no quantifying of a national mass turning of the Jews, but it states not WHEN the Jews believe, “but IF they abide not in unbelief.”
I think Math 21:43- 46 clinches it for me. “Therefore I say unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” In v45 “the chief priests and Pharisees perceived that He spake of them.” Notice it is singular, not nations! What nation is this? Is not this the nation of the elect., foretold in the OT and corroborated by Peter like this, “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an HOLY NATION, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light; which in time past were NOT a people but are Now the people of God.” This is the Nation that should be born in a day. That glorious resurrection day.
I also think that a backward glance is to be given to Zech12:10-14, back to 2Chron 35:23-25, where good king Josiah (King of Judah), was wounded by the archers, and he said “I am sore wounded”. I have read that it could be translated”pierced”, but he was taken by chariot and died in Jerusalem. And we read there was great lamentation or mourning for him amongst all the branches of Jewry.
 
With Tyler I cannot hold with a mass conversion of the Jews but there is an election of a remnant in every tongue and nation including the Jews. Thessalonians, to whom Paul writes to rectify a mistaken view of the last days is strangely silent on such a momentous notion. As to Romans there is no quantifying of a national mass turning of the Jews, but it states not WHEN the Jews believe, “but IF they abide not in unbelief.”
I think Math 21:43- 46 clinches it for me. “Therefore I say unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” In v45 “the chief priests and Pharisees perceived that He spake of them.” Notice it is singular, not nations! What nation is this? Is not this the nation of the elect., foretold in the OT and corroborated by Peter like this, “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an HOLY NATION, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous light; which in time past were NOT a people but are Now the people of God.” This is the Nation that should be born in a day. That glorious resurrection day.
I also think that a backward glance is to be given to Zech12:10-14, back to 2Chron 35:23-25, where good king Josiah (King of Judah), was wounded by the archers, and he said “I am sore wounded”. I have read that it could be translated”pierced”, but he was taken by chariot and died in Jerusalem. And we read there was great lamentation or mourning for him amongst all the branches of Jewry.
I also have to deal with Romans, that states to us that God is now dealing with the Gentiles, but that there is coming a time when he turns back to Jewish nation, and that all Israel shall be saved. this promise to me is not for all Jews until the end times, but refers primarily to those of the end times.
 
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