Magistrate Gov. Perry call for Christian prayer day

Discussion in 'The Law of God' started by mvdm, Jun 7, 2011.

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  1. mvdm

    mvdm Puritan Board Junior

  2. T.A.G.

    T.A.G. Puritan Board Freshman

    Why would reformed side with seculars on this?
  3. Contra_Mundum

    Contra_Mundum Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger Staff Member

    I suspect the governor isn't a Presbyterian, but using the WCF as the standard (confessing that which he should do), I think the relevant question is: by his proclamation, participation, and invitations, is the governor maintaining "piety, justice, and peace, according to the wholesome laws of" his state (cf.WCF23.2)?

    I note that the gathering he plans to attend is called, "a non-denominational, apolitical, Christian prayer meeting." I therefore assume Perry is attending the event as a private citizen. I'm confident he doesn't plan to make political hay out of his religious devotions, despite the worry-warts at the Interfaith Alliance.

    This statement from the governor's office does trouble me, somewhat: "the governor believes in the power for prayer." Is that intentional, or a misprint or misstatement? Is this a statement concerning the prayer's power, or the governor's power, the people's power, or God's power? Is power here more akin to dunamis, or exousia? Where does this power come from, who has access to it, and who wields it? Does the governor expect the Christians and the Krishnians to be praying to the same Person, for the same end, with comparable effect? This explanatory statement raises more theological questions for me than it answers.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2011
  4. Edward

    Edward Puritanboard Commissioner

    Who does he consider to be the "true God"? Last time he was in my area, it was to speak at the Mosque down the street. (The Ismaili Cemter on Alma, not the Islamic Association on Independence.)

    I don't know if you intended that to be humorous, but it truly is.
  5. mvdm

    mvdm Puritan Board Junior

    At least by this news story, the Governor is calling for a Christian prayer meeting. Perry himself is a Christian, so assuming he is sincere in that profession, he would consider the Triune God to be the true God. Was there something he said at the mosque speech that would call that into question? And whatever his motivation--to soley make "political hay" or to sincerely call folks to prayer-- is really not the point. Rather, in his capacity as governor he is calling citizens together to a Christian prayer meeting.

    Also, I would not assume he attends this strictly as a private citizen. This is a governor as governor calling for prayer to Christ. He calls on other governors to do the same. When he walks in to the meeting, he continues carrying the mantle of the office that issued the call to prayer in the first place.
  6. JennyG

    JennyG Puritan Board Graduate

    I wish anyone in a comparable position in Britain would call for a day of prayer and fasting for the nation.
    It looks like a slip for "of". What would power for prayer even mean?
  7. Poimen

    Poimen Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Some would be against it because it would be looked upon as a mixing of two kingdoms, namely that the government has no business in calling for religious gatherings.

    Others might be concerned about ecumenism as some Reformed Christians believe we ought not to pray or worship with Arminians.

    Still others would be against it because this nation or the state of Texas has not bowed the knee to king Jesus or recognized His crown rights. Thus a prayer gathering is futile in light of the nation's opposition to the Lordship of Christ.
  8. CIT

    CIT Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    I have never understood this line of thought. If one thinks that Arminians are heretics, then they are not praying to God. As such, who cares if they are wasting their breath. Does this make your prayers less effective? How is this any different from a pagan walking in our church on Sunday morning and "worshipping" with God's people?
  9. Fly Caster

    Fly Caster Puritan Board Sophomore

    Reformed Christians should be grateful for the Gov's awareness of the need to appeal to the Supreme Governor and Law-Giver for aid and should intercede for an even greater and clearer understanding for the Gov. regarding Divine truth
  10. J. Dean

    J. Dean Puritan Board Junior

    If Perry is calling for evangelical Christians to come together and pray, that's wonderful.

    If it starts crossing the line to Mormons, Catholics, and other semi-Pelagian or outright cultic sects, then we have a problem.
  11. DAW

    DAW Puritan Board Freshman

    I notice that the Liberals and the secularists have their bowels in an uproar over Gov. Perry's call. I figure that he must be doing something right to attract such bile.

    As a Texan, I have observed that Gov. Perry is sincere in his beliefs. Since I did not vote for him to be Theologian-in-chief of Texas, I will cut him some slack. Someone famous said that you can tell a lot about a man by the people who oppose him. So far, Gov. Perry has riled Liberals, atheists and Yankees. That is a fairly good record.
  12. mvdm

    mvdm Puritan Board Junior

    Of course, the Reformed position would not say this is a mixing of kingdoms. The governor is acting circa sacra, not in sacra.
  13. LawrenceU

    LawrenceU Puritan Board Doctor

    We need more governors to call the citizenry to humiliation, fasting, and prayer.
  14. J. Dean

    J. Dean Puritan Board Junior

    That would be fine if it were understood who was being called (evangelical Christians). But the problem is that such public calls are done in a way as to give the impression that such behavior is also acceptable when done by non-Christian religions and cultic pseudo-Christian sects.
  15. LawrenceU

    LawrenceU Puritan Board Doctor

    From the Governor's website:

    I understand the need for orthodoxy in the church. I also hold positions that are much more 'theonomist' than most on this board would find comfortable. I do not in any way take orthodoxy or orthopraxy lightly. I also know that if one wanted to have a 'pure' public call to prayer it would be a purely subjective standard. According to many standards I would not be welcome either because of my credobaptistic views, my views on the application of the moral law, or the fact that I see paedobaptists as brothers in Christ. Whose line of interpretation is the standard? If a Christian magistrate wants to appeal to other Christians to fast and pray for God's mercy there is nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact it is good. If unsaved participate it is not his fault.

    Here is the full proclamation:

    What would please? Should he post a confession that one must embrace prior to participation in a call for mercy?
  16. Fly Caster

    Fly Caster Puritan Board Sophomore

    I would much rather see a ruler "Kiss the Son" is a sincere but awkward manner, even with a few mis-steps, than to see one "Kiss the Son" in an exact manner with insincerity and coldness-- or to resist and neglect kissing the Son at all.

    For "Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."
  17. LawrenceU

    LawrenceU Puritan Board Doctor

    Well said.
  18. J. Dean

    J. Dean Puritan Board Junior

    I'm just saying that I've heard calls like this turn into a "all religions are equal ways to God" is all. Not saying Perry specifically is doing this; just reminding all of us here to be careful about public proclamations regarding religion in this pluralistic Amercan society.

    God bless the man if he's doing it the right way.
  19. Rev. Todd Ruddell

    Rev. Todd Ruddell Puritan Board Junior

    I am encouraged to hear any of our leaders mentioning "natural disasters" and repentance in the same breath, rather than blaming "en nino", global warming, or any other such drivel. That Governor Perry has called for prayer as a magistrate, because he at least claims to recognize that God rules in the affairs of men, is better than attributing these events the Lord has sent to impersonal natural forces, "chance" or human use or misuse of resources. I probably will not drive to Houston, but I plan to be in prayer on the 6th of August, and I will be in prayer to the Triune God of Scripture, for national repentance from national sins.
  20. R Harris

    R Harris Puritan Board Sophomore

    I guess my problem is with Perry's sincerity, given some of his actions in the past and his political ambitions. There have been some articles mentioning that he is considering a run for the presidency, so I wonder if he is simply pandering to the broad evangelical community for the 2012 primary vote.

    No, I do not believe for one second that he holds to a Reformed view of the civil magistrate, which I have no doubt is the correct view. Thus, I do question what his motives are.
  21. CIT

    CIT Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    If memory serves me, this is not the first time he has called for a time of prayer. So I doubt it is for presidential aspirations.
  22. Rufus

    Rufus Puritan Board Junior

    Wikipedia also says he is a Methodist.
  23. CIT

    CIT Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Memory did serve me correctly

    Office of the Governor Rick Perry - [Proclamation] Gov. Perry Issues Proclamation for Day of Prayer in the State of Texas

    Office of the Governor Rick Perry - [Proclamation] Gov. Perry Issues Proclamation for Days of Prayer for Rain in Texas

    He may have done more, but I stopped google searching.

    I think he is getting more attention this time simply because he might be running for the Oval Office
  24. Edward

    Edward Puritanboard Commissioner

    But there is that pesky evidence. I've been trying to avoid posting things that would get this thread deported to P&G, which I seem to be registered for, but which I can't locate on this site these days.
  25. JennyG

    JennyG Puritan Board Graduate

    ...and also consider that whatever his motives may be, among all those who heed his call there will surely be many faithful believers?
  26. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    Does anyone hear honestly think that political motives were not a part of why the Westminster Assembly was called, or a host of other things that we hold dear from that age?
  27. R Harris

    R Harris Puritan Board Sophomore

    Right, exactly my position, don't want to go too much into things lest it be moved to P&G.

    But yes, I suppose we should grant charity for conscience's sake. I just have trouble separating the man's political actions from a positive declaration such as this. in my opinion, he is clearly an opportunist, but I will stop there.
  28. CIT

    CIT Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Was he an opportunist every time he called for prayer?

    Although I believe the possibility of him being an opportunist is high, I am not comfortable with unequivocally stating his intentions.
  29. JennyG

    JennyG Puritan Board Graduate

    Is it right that he may be going to stand for President, our newspaper hinted today?

    ---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM ----------

    ...I mean, someone mentioned that already, but how likely is it?
  30. Edward

    Edward Puritanboard Commissioner

    He's been making insincere denials for months, before recently changing to 'considering' it. He's been positioning himself for a run since the last governor's race ended. Rumors last week were that he would pick up most of the Gingrich staff. The only think that would keep him out would be if he can't put the money side together. His political skills should never be underestimated.
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