Andreas,
Hey brother. I don't want you to feel like we're all ganging up on you. I have been observing the thread for some time. About six months ago, I began a serious study of eschatology, to include the millennial positions and also the book of the "Revelation of Jesus Christ".
I think I know somewhat how you feel regarding your questions about Matthew 24. I am a partial preterist. But I can honestly say that I was absolutely clueless (not on the millennial differences) regarding the book of the "Revelation of Jesus Christ". I used to ask the same questions.
I would highly encourage you to get the 22 audio tape series by Ken Gentry on the book of Revelation. But at least go to American Vision and get the Gary Demar 4 audio cassettes volume entitled: "Smoking out the Dispensationalists". Trust me, there is a lot of great info packed in those 8 hours.
For example, read Matthew 21-23 to get the context. Jesus is building up to Matthew 24. He cleanses the Temple because He saw no fruit. He curses the fig tree because He can find no fruit. He gives the parable of the landowner. He says that the kingdom will be taken from the nation of Israel and given to a new nation.
He gives the parable of the marriage feast which ends with the city set on fire (it happened in AD70). He speaks of the 7 woes. He is consistently speaking to them (the second person plural). For example "This generation" in Matt. 23:36, Matt. 11:16, Matt 12:41. In Matt. 23:37-39 the "house" that is referred to is the Temple that was then standing. This background flows nicely into Matt. 24.
Up until now Jesus has not referenced the second coming. The point of reference for the disciples was the Old Testament. And the type of comings of God in the Old Testament were judement comings (ex. Isa. 19:1; 26:21; Micah 1:3). Read Rev. 2:3, 16. These are judgment comings of Christ. Did you know that there are at least five, if not six different types of "comings of Christ" spoken about in the Bible?
Perhaps we could interact point by point regarding Matt. 24. For example, you raised the issue of v. 29 regarding the sun, moon and stars. If I'm not mistaken, that is an allusion to an Old Testament passage. Do you know what passage or verse is being quoted?
What if you were to find out that this is typical language that is used by prophets in the Old Testament? Imagine that prophets had a tool bag. Each time they wanted to say something, they would reach into the tool bag and employ the exact tool for the job.
Our Lord reaches into His tool bag (reaches back into the Old Testament) and uses precise Old Testament language.
Have you ever heard of "deescalation language"? It's when the prophets describe the doom and judgment (the fall of a nation). This is not to be taken literally. Why? Because it was used by the prophets in the Old Testament. These things happened then (when governments and nations were judged or overthrown).
Think about the symbols on the flags of different nations. A sun or a moon is on many nations' flags. And stars represent ascendancy. For example, we often say "her star is rising", if a person is on the ascendancy. We call them "movie stars". Think about Joseph's dream. What symbol represented his father Jacob? I think it was a sun. What about his mother? I think it was the moon. What symbol represented his brothers? I think it was stars. There is specific Old Testament referneces (I have to find the passages) that Christ is alluding to. He uses the exact symbols.
So, we have to interpret Scripture with Scripture. If the Lord Jesus wants to reach back into the Old Testament prophets and use deescalation language to describe a soon coming event, we dare not take it to mean something else.
I hope this gives some light upon some of the background context to Matt. 24 and espec. v. 29.
Perhaps we could take the entire chapter verse by verse.
Brother, for whatever its worth. I know that my understanding on the covenantal aspect of the Scriptures truly broadened when I saw the book of the "Revelation of Jesus Christ" open up before my eyes. It is to be seen in a covenantal framework. Christ did "come" in ADA 70 to bring covenantal judgment against His adulterous wife Israel. The Old Covenant system had to be dealt with (animal sacrifices, priests still sacrificing and standing, the Temple etc).
I look forward to interacting. Thanks brother.
"In Christ",
Bobby
Hey brother. I don't want you to feel like we're all ganging up on you. I have been observing the thread for some time. About six months ago, I began a serious study of eschatology, to include the millennial positions and also the book of the "Revelation of Jesus Christ".
I think I know somewhat how you feel regarding your questions about Matthew 24. I am a partial preterist. But I can honestly say that I was absolutely clueless (not on the millennial differences) regarding the book of the "Revelation of Jesus Christ". I used to ask the same questions.
I would highly encourage you to get the 22 audio tape series by Ken Gentry on the book of Revelation. But at least go to American Vision and get the Gary Demar 4 audio cassettes volume entitled: "Smoking out the Dispensationalists". Trust me, there is a lot of great info packed in those 8 hours.
For example, read Matthew 21-23 to get the context. Jesus is building up to Matthew 24. He cleanses the Temple because He saw no fruit. He curses the fig tree because He can find no fruit. He gives the parable of the landowner. He says that the kingdom will be taken from the nation of Israel and given to a new nation.
He gives the parable of the marriage feast which ends with the city set on fire (it happened in AD70). He speaks of the 7 woes. He is consistently speaking to them (the second person plural). For example "This generation" in Matt. 23:36, Matt. 11:16, Matt 12:41. In Matt. 23:37-39 the "house" that is referred to is the Temple that was then standing. This background flows nicely into Matt. 24.
Up until now Jesus has not referenced the second coming. The point of reference for the disciples was the Old Testament. And the type of comings of God in the Old Testament were judement comings (ex. Isa. 19:1; 26:21; Micah 1:3). Read Rev. 2:3, 16. These are judgment comings of Christ. Did you know that there are at least five, if not six different types of "comings of Christ" spoken about in the Bible?
Perhaps we could interact point by point regarding Matt. 24. For example, you raised the issue of v. 29 regarding the sun, moon and stars. If I'm not mistaken, that is an allusion to an Old Testament passage. Do you know what passage or verse is being quoted?
What if you were to find out that this is typical language that is used by prophets in the Old Testament? Imagine that prophets had a tool bag. Each time they wanted to say something, they would reach into the tool bag and employ the exact tool for the job.
Our Lord reaches into His tool bag (reaches back into the Old Testament) and uses precise Old Testament language.
Have you ever heard of "deescalation language"? It's when the prophets describe the doom and judgment (the fall of a nation). This is not to be taken literally. Why? Because it was used by the prophets in the Old Testament. These things happened then (when governments and nations were judged or overthrown).
Think about the symbols on the flags of different nations. A sun or a moon is on many nations' flags. And stars represent ascendancy. For example, we often say "her star is rising", if a person is on the ascendancy. We call them "movie stars". Think about Joseph's dream. What symbol represented his father Jacob? I think it was a sun. What about his mother? I think it was the moon. What symbol represented his brothers? I think it was stars. There is specific Old Testament referneces (I have to find the passages) that Christ is alluding to. He uses the exact symbols.
So, we have to interpret Scripture with Scripture. If the Lord Jesus wants to reach back into the Old Testament prophets and use deescalation language to describe a soon coming event, we dare not take it to mean something else.
I hope this gives some light upon some of the background context to Matt. 24 and espec. v. 29.
Perhaps we could take the entire chapter verse by verse.
Brother, for whatever its worth. I know that my understanding on the covenantal aspect of the Scriptures truly broadened when I saw the book of the "Revelation of Jesus Christ" open up before my eyes. It is to be seen in a covenantal framework. Christ did "come" in ADA 70 to bring covenantal judgment against His adulterous wife Israel. The Old Covenant system had to be dealt with (animal sacrifices, priests still sacrificing and standing, the Temple etc).
I look forward to interacting. Thanks brother.
"In Christ",
Bobby