Man wants to go into missions, wife wants to stay

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I disagree with the article. He is supposed to be in charge. Does God always give every missionary a special magic feeling about it before they can honor the Great Commission through missions? Is the call always an obvious, dramatic event? I suspect not. The Great Commission would be in danger if everyone waited around for an overt sign from heaven. :2cents:
 
Yes, I was surprised that the man came off looking like a jerk and the wife was excused for what I take to be her weakness.

BUT,

a man must know the limits of his wife, though those limits, too, are not praiseworthy.



Is it ever appropriate for a husband to train his wife in poverty and hardship to get her away from a false reliance on affluence and comfort?
 
Pergamum said:
Yes, I was surprised that the man came off looking like a jerk and the wife was excused for what I take to be her weakness.

BUT,

a man must know the limits of his wife, though those limits, too, are not praiseworthy.



Is it ever appropriate for a husband to train his wife in poverty and hardship to get her away from a false reliance on affluence and comfort?
Click to expand...

I think so, if done in the right spirit and in a respectful manner.
 
Pergamum said:
Is it ever appropriate for a husband to train his wife in poverty and hardship to get her away from a false reliance on affluence and comfort?
Click to expand...

I would argue that's a separate question from your OP, though...that most certainly could be done without going to the mission field, and if that's a primary reason factoring into his desire, that's a problem.
 
Yep, my wife grew up sorta poor and having to work to support herself from 16....so, praise God for hard-boned people with calloused hands and strong lower backs - beautiful qualities in a woman to a man wanting to do Third World Missions.

And our health still might fail.

But, I have wondered what to do if I had a resistant wife...and, I do encounter this now as I counsel with people wanting to go.
 
Pergamum said:
What are your thoughts on this article?
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They seem to be the words of a man who is much more mature now than he was when he entered seminary.

When I read it, it struck me that it would be a good item for discussion in a premarital counseling session.
 
What would a pastor say during this premarital counseling sesssion?



To husband: You can only drag the wife as far as she will relent to.

To wife: You should be willing to be dragged as far as you are able to and enlarge your comfort zone.



What would this session look like?
 
Thus began quite a struggle. Was I a follower of the Lord or follower of my wife? That was the question as I began to see it. In fact, I began to think that if Kristie would not go with me, I would go alone. After all, which is the greater good: staying married or saving souls? Or better, which is the greater evil: divorce or not following God’s call?
Click to expand...

At this point in his life, the person was an ignorant child, and in no way qualified to be an elder. Most of these sorts of personnel problems would sort themselves out on their own if people would realize that missionaries should be ordained elders.
 
Even MAF pilots and mechanics, literacy workers, dorm parents, translators, women ministering to women and childen in muslim lands, field administrators, nurses, dentists, and other roles...ALL need to be ordained elders?

Your view on missions and missionaries is overly rigid.
 
Your view on missions and missionaries is overly rigid.
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Possibly, or more likely a semantic deal. But the person who wrote what I quoted, at that time in his life, had no business being a pilot or mechanic attached to an orthodox missionary work, and it should have been pointed out to him immediately.
 
Yes, we agree there...if you would LEAVE family for ministry, this is evidence that one should leave the ministry.
 
To survive on the mission field a man needs the support of his wife. If his wife is not fully behind whatever ministry and the location he is in then he will struggle and return.

When I was young if I heard any missionary speaker I would want to go wherever he was- China, India, Africa, South America I'd have gone anywhere. But that is not a call, that is the prospect of adventure, blessing etc. Nor is being made aware of a need a call either, that is just compassion. A call is a call where there is that conviction that this is what a person has to do. (Of course there are all sorts of complexities attached to all this)

Although I felt the wife in this case is a bit closed to any disruption, but I do feel if a man is married God also calls the wife. Now it may take a lot of discussion but I feel the couple go forward with one mind.

I also feel any Christian considering marriage should discuss prior to engagement how the other would feel if one was to feel called to the missionfield at a later date.
 
If the husband truly 'heard God call him' to mission work then the Lord will also call the wife. It may take some time to sort things through, but God is not so inept that he can call a united couple and somehow not get through to one half of it. The man was full of youthful zeal.
 
The guy was being a bonehead, and thankfully the Lord intervened. The last thing any missions needs is overzealous adventure junkies who mistake their wanderlust for a call to the mission field while ignoring the obvious divine decree that half his own flesh is not willing to go. PAH!

"I think I'll get married!" "I think I'll be a Pastor!" "No, wait! Here's a kewler movie... misshunss... yah! Hey babe, God told me we're movin' to Swaziland!"

Glad somebody got a net over this nut.
 
I agree with the above posts.

But, practically speaking then,


What sort of counsel is best in these situations?
and,
What are good things to advise both parties?

Finally,
In one instance, the wife did previosuly tell the husband, before marriage, that she would follow him anywhere...even to the mission field. So the man then began to prepare to go. But now she appears to be getting cold feet and the husband is upset because this was a major question before marriage.


Few would argue that men insist she go, and many fault William Carey with Dorothy, but what sort of practical advice does one give in these above situations?
 
Few would argue that men insist she go, and many fault William Carey with Dorothy, but what sort of practical advice does one give in these above situations?
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Again, if you are determined that missionaries of the type in your above example don't need to be elders, then things are inherently messy. If you are determined that someone who doesn't have his household in order is necessary for the expansion of the Kingdom, then things are always going to be difficult. On the other hand, if you insist that someone sent by the church with the intent of teaching is an ordained elder 90 percent of problems disappear. I will assume this man isn't interesting in being a mechanic for missions vehicles.
 
I have seen elder-qualified men have this happen too (their wives flat out say no to even the possibility of missions).
 
Pergamum said:
What would a pastor say during this premarital counseling sesssion?



To husband: You can only drag the wife as far as she will relent to.

To wife: You should be willing to be dragged as far as you are able to and enlarge your comfort zone.



What would this session look like?
Click to expand...

I was thinking more of what the couple might say to each other in light of this recitation. Both might have an opportunity to learn what the other really thinks about submission and leadership, and sacrificial love.
 
I have seen elder-qualified men have this happen too (their wives flat out say no to even the possibility of missions).
Click to expand...

Elders are people too (now THAT was funny ;-) ) so they have shortcomings. But if a mature man, confident of his calling and after consultation with the church decides he needs to move to the next city to support his family financially, and the wife refuses to budge, then at that particular point in his personal history, he isn't elder qualified. It's more like a one time drinking too much, or cusing the guy that cut him off, or falsely accusing and verbally beating a church member. Something to be repented of, and changed. Which brings us back to the points made by Laurence and Stuart. Until he's got his house in order he ain't ready.
 
I couldn't agree more with the comments about the wife and husband being in agreement about missions. I have worked on the mission field as a single missionary, and personally observed a couple who struggled over this issue. Both felt called to missions, however, he felt called to work with the French, she always felt called to Africa. While she submitted, she was never happy about the decision to work in France. In the end, they left the mission field, and he ended up teaching in a Bible college.

If the wife and husband are not in agreement then, as some have already said, their house is not in order, and they are not ready to serve on the mission field.
 
JBaldwin said:
I couldn't agree more with the comments about the wife and husband being in agreement about missions. I have worked on the mission field as a single missionary, and personally observed a couple who struggled over this issue. Both felt called to missions, however, he felt called to work with the French, she always felt called to Africa. While she submitted, she was never happy about the decision to work in France. In the end, they left the mission field, and he ended up teaching in a Bible college.
Click to expand...

That's sad.

Did they ever consider Francophone Africa? Or working with African immigrants in France, for that matter?
 
I agree with that blogger. Jesus tells a man to lay down his life for his wife. Lay it down- all of it, especially the ambitions. ( and yeah, you tell the gal to submit and trust God).

It is so easy when you are young to want to be in ministry for your own ego's sake, and to be "needed" or to have an identity. I've never seen a resistant wife where the hubby didn't have obvious issues. Jesus said to PRAY that the Lord sends out laborers into the harvest and I've seen people heading out to "do" who hardly pray.

In this article, you don't see the guy in any kind of relationship with his church where he is getting counsel. Not to diss the prof and his wife, but here is a guy having major marital conflict and they aren't going to an elder, pastor, or the local CCEF biblical counselor? He finally calls the prof? I may not be the brightest lightbulb in the lamp here, but over the years when my hub and I got to the point of ongoing tension, we went together to talk to somebody who was objective and insightful and confrontative. (both CCEF and pastoral). A wife will submit to a guy who won't submit to anybody himself? Ha. You want a submissive wife, try humbling yourself and submitting to elders/men's group/accountability group. Even if all you have is an online forum, at least that's a place to get advice. He was a typical young independent guy and certainly not ready to face the mission field battles alone dragging her into it.

My first year of marriage my dear hubby was very busy ministering and discipling all sorts of young guys who wanted lots of his time. We had some conflict and he got real frustrated. He sat down one day and started griping to God about how I would not submit, and the Holy Spirit impressed on him that verse about laying down your life for your wife, and to start trying to meet my needs instead of demanding I meet his wants. He vowed in that moment to put me first. He didn't tell me this for many months but he said that I totally changed overnight, he was amazed, it was like I became another person in submitting to him. I wasn't even aware of anything outwardly, but I think either God changed me when he did what was right, or else I intuitively could feel his care instead of his self centeredness with his "ministry to God". Women are very intuitive.

It hasn't always been conflict free (I'm not the naturally submissive type, ha) but on anything major he insists on our unity. He knows I will submit, but for big decisions that affect me significantly, he'd rather we have unity than that he drag me into something that my heart isn't in. And in return I've been able to give up a lot to follow God's call on his life, it is a delight to, and I think a lot of that is trusting that his heart is to take care of me. And I think we've had more impact on people for good because of our marriage than we ever could have any other way.
 
I said I disagreed with the article earlier, and that's still true. I just want to point out, though, that if the man's primary point in this article had been just "I wasn't mature enough to be a missionary because I didn't have control of my family" or "I wasn't qualified because I wasn't qualified to be an elder," then I would have agreed with the article, and I agree with those sentiments here. But here's where I'm not sure I agree. He seems to think that unless his wife has an absolutely certain divine "good feeling" about it, they must not be called. But I don't know that it's always that obvious. Sometimes it's hard to accept the call, and she may have been resisting it for selfish reasons (not going to impute motives here, though). However, it's clear that the man wasn't mature and didn't have proper shepherding abilities to be an elder on the mission field.
 
lynnie said:
I agree with that blogger. Jesus tells a man to lay down his life for his wife. Lay it down- all of it, especially the ambitions. ( and yeah, you tell the gal to submit and trust God).

It is so easy when you are young to want to be in ministry for your own ego's sake, and to be "needed" or to have an identity. I've never seen a resistant wife where the hubby didn't have obvious issues. Jesus said to PRAY that the Lord sends out laborers into the harvest and I've seen people heading out to "do" who hardly pray.

In this article, you don't see the guy in any kind of relationship with his church where he is getting counsel. Not to diss the prof and his wife, but here is a guy having major marital conflict and they aren't going to an elder, pastor, or the local CCEF biblical counselor? He finally calls the prof? I may not be the brightest lightbulb in the lamp here, but over the years when my hub and I got to the point of ongoing tension, we went together to talk to somebody who was objective and insightful and confrontative. (both CCEF and pastoral). A wife will submit to a guy who won't submit to anybody himself? Ha. You want a submissive wife, try humbling yourself and submitting to elders/men's group/accountability group. Even if all you have is an online forum, at least that's a place to get advice. He was a typical young independent guy and certainly not ready to face the mission field battles alone dragging her into it.

My first year of marriage my dear hubby was very busy ministering and discipling all sorts of young guys who wanted lots of his time. We had some conflict and he got real frustrated. He sat down one day and started griping to God about how I would not submit, and the Holy Spirit impressed on him that verse about laying down your life for your wife, and to start trying to meet my needs instead of demanding I meet his wants. He vowed in that moment to put me first. He didn't tell me this for many months but he said that I totally changed overnight, he was amazed, it was like I became another person in submitting to him. I wasn't even aware of anything outwardly, but I think either God changed me when he did what was right, or else I intuitively could feel his care instead of his self centeredness with his "ministry to God". Women are very intuitive.

It hasn't always been conflict free (I'm not the naturally submissive type, ha) but on anything major he insists on our unity. He knows I will submit, but for big decisions that affect me significantly, he'd rather we have unity than that he drag me into something that my heart isn't in. And in return I've been able to give up a lot to follow God's call on his life, it is a delight to, and I think a lot of that is trusting that his heart is to take care of me. And I think we've had more impact on people for good because of our marriage than we ever could have any other way.
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Lynnie, I couldn't have said it better. You are right, when the husband is submitting to the Lord, the wife wants to fall in line, and the unity comes. In the case I mentioned above, the husband constantly made decisions without considering his wife. The case of where they were ministering was typical of all the decisions he made without even asking her what she thought. As far as I know, he is still dragging her from one place to another trying to find God's will for them, and she remains very unhappy.
 
It's interesting that our local practice (and perhaps denomination wide this is standardized), is that, if married, the wife of a candidate for office- deacon or elder is asked if she consents to her husband standing for office.

If she does not consent, he is not allowed to stand.

Per I Timothy 3 and Titus I, an officer must have not a perfect, but an exemplary life.

The wife's character is also examined for a few characteristics mentioned there such as trustworthiness (not being a gossip), and as an evaluation of the character, gifts and calling of her husband.

So, it is quite possible an officer is ready, willing and able to serve in his own right, but he is not able to stand (for election). This can be because:

1) things are not right at home, or
2) things are not right with the wife.

Both of these can disqualify a man from serving in church office.

As part of the qualification process, we must have faith God will confirm those whom He would appoint as officers over His people.

This can be a painful process, but it is part of what leadership requires.

It doesn't mean the man can never serve, he may be able to serve in some other way. Or, he may be able to serve in that capacity but the timing is not right- it may come, but not by bypassing the high biblical standards for church office.
 
Wives are gifts to their husbands and often more spiritually discerning. This does not mean they are always right, but I don't believe God calls one spouse and not the other.
 
Think of how wonderful it would be if John Wesley had believed a man wasn't called to ministry unless his wife also felt a call to ministry! None of those pesky "evangelical Arminian" denominations would even exist!
Think about how wonderful it would be if guys like William Carey had held to the idea that when God calls a man He also calls the wife! We wouldn't have a flood of independent missions organizations!


In all seriousness, I do think that a man's attitude towards his wife's desires should be considered in determining his suitability for ministry, but I also believe there are times in which the woman is acting as a pawn of Satan.
 
I also believe there are times in which the woman is acting as a pawn of Satan.

Yes of course...... and do you really want that influence on the younger women? All the more reason to keep the guy out of ministry. I've heard a few nasty stories over the years from churches with a problem pastors wife, and I know of one missionary wife that has left a trail of trouble behind her. A truly fine guy can be married to a rebel or a self centered whiner or a credit card spender, and I didn't mean to come off like I was blaming husbands for everything. (I know what it is to get stubborn or independent and mine isn't to blame.) But the problems with the wives seem to ooze out and infect entire churches; often other women get hurt somehow. I know one church that split and when a reconciliation ministry came in to try and deal with the mess, they said the biggest problem in the entire church and the root of the split was an elder's wife . ( I had known her years before and she was a first class b**** even then, pardon my hebrew). Life is full of problems so at least start off in ministry with a happy supportive wife!

I will say that almost all the real horror stories I've heard of are outside the sphere of Reformed Churches. I've heard of a little in Presbyterianism, but nothing like in typical evangelicalism.
 
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