marijuana

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dust_and_ashes

Inactive User
how do you respond to someone that says "marijuana is a gift from God"?

i can't find a place in scripture that would say otherwise...

the only thing i know is that we are supposed to obey our government's laws (as long as they don't pass a law requiring you to break God's law)... so since it's considered illegal in the united states, that should be reason enough for christians to abstain... but what about countries where it's NOT illegal?... what does the church in the netherlands teach concerning christians and marijuana use?
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
Originally posted by dust_and_ashes
how do you respond to someone that says "marijuana is a gift from God"?

Don't be so judgmental. Maybe, he has cataracts or glaucoma and a prescription for medical marijuana perhaps?

Interestingly, in California they passed an ordinance legalizing it for medicinal use.

Likewise, in Oregon, it is legal for medicinal purposes. Interesting sidenote about Oregon: everyone has been diagnosed with glaucoma.
:cool:

:p
 

turmeric

Megerator
Marijuana is only partially legal here for medicinal use, it's still against the Federal law and I suppose if the Feds wished, they could come in and impose Federal law. So far, they haven't chosen to die on that hill. There's a small matter in the Middle East occupying them at present. Or are they the ones occupying...
 

Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
As I saw one brother put it once, marijuana is to be forbidden because it is always a "mind bender" i.e. the equivalent of causing drunkenness, which is condemned in scripture.
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
Originally posted by Pilgrim
As I saw one brother put it once, marijuana is to be forbidden because it is always a "mind bender" i.e. the equivalent of causing drunkenness, which is condemned in scripture.

So, what you're trying to say is that the war on drugs is more important than the war on glaucoma.

Okay. Fair enough. No argument there.
:D
 

turmeric

Megerator
Originally posted by Puritanhead
Originally posted by Pilgrim
As I saw one brother put it once, marijuana is to be forbidden because it is always a "mind bender" i.e. the equivalent of causing drunkenness, which is condemned in scripture.

So, what you're trying to say is that the war on drugs is more important than the war on glaucoma.

Okay. Fair enough. No argument there.
:D

Okay, there's some kind of fallacious argument going on here - don't remember what it's called. Pilgrim didn't say anything about the "War on Drugs" which is a political thing. I think he's giving his opinion about whether Chrisitans could ever use marijuana recreationally - and having a lot of experience with this, I tend to concur. For me anyway, "drunkenness" can occur with one "hit" depending on the THC content of the material ingested. Eating it, in brownies, will almost certainly intoxicate a person. However, when the body needs something medicinally, it doesn't seem to intoxicate one to the same degree. The problem with drugs which have a possibly "psychedelic"effect, for me anyway, is that they increase one's awareness of the spiritual world, in all it's aspects, while reducing one's self-control; which seems like a dangerous combo to me. Of course, that particular kind of "drunkenness" varies with the variety of "grass", how much ingested, the individual ingesting it, et cetera. :2cents:

[Edited on 6-16-2006 by turmeric]
 

kevin.carroll

Puritan Board Junior
I'm not sure the drunkeness argument carries as much weight for me as two other considerations...well three. First, there is the legal issue. As Christians we are to obey the laws. Of course, that doesn't stop me from keeping whiskey on hand in a dry county...so perhaps I should shut up.

Second, there is the issue of quality. No...not as in, "this is really good s***!" What I am referring to is that sometimes MJ is cut or laced with things that are harmful. I personally know a woman who very nearly died from one joint. The grower had apparently sprayed the leaves with insecticide while growing but did not properly clean them before drying. The end result was that this woman not only nearly died but did serious and irreparable damage to her cardio-pulmonary system.

The third consideration is the element of society that has to be dealt with to secure MJ (unless, of course you live in the Northwest and can develop glaucoma on demand). Drug dealers are simply an unsavory and sometimes dangerous crowd to hobknob with and drug deals can go very bad.

As surprising as it may sound, I'm not opposed to MJ use per se, in that I don't think the Bible forbids it directly. But I think that prudence and wisdom would suggest it should be avoided.

And now a personal anecdote. I was biking by the RTS campus once and came across a baggie filled with MJ. I chucked it into the bushes (honest!). But given that pot apparently falls from the sky in Jackson, RTS-Belcher (don't get me started on that awful name!) should shortly become very popular. :lol:
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
Originally posted by turmeric
Originally posted by Puritanhead
Originally posted by Pilgrim
As I saw one brother put it once, marijuana is to be forbidden because it is always a "mind bender" i.e. the equivalent of causing drunkenness, which is condemned in scripture.

So, what you're trying to say is that the war on drugs is more important than the war on glaucoma.

Okay. Fair enough. No argument there.
:D

Okay, there's some kind of fallacious argument going on here - don't remember what it's called. Pilgrim didn't say anything about the "War on Drugs" which is a political thing.

I think it should be obvious Meg that I am being tongue-in-cheek, hence ironic.
 

Peter

Puritan Board Junior
The drunkeness parrallel Chris brought up is really the only legitimate objection to Marijuana use. Why is drunkeness forbidden but that it deprives man of reason and makes him like a fool? A Christian's mind and behavior ought to be earnest not high or wasted.
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
Originally posted by Peter
The drunkeness parrallel Chris brought up is really the only legitimate objection to Marijuana use. Why is drunkeness forbidden but that it deprives man of reason and makes him like a fool? A Christian's mind and behavior ought to be earnest not high or wasted.

:ditto:
 

kevin.carroll

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by Peter
The drunkeness parrallel Chris brought up is really the only legitimate objection to Marijuana use. Why is drunkeness forbidden but that it deprives man of reason and makes him like a fool? A Christian's mind and behavior ought to be earnest not high or wasted.

Drunkeness is certainly warned against in the Scriptures, but I think the only true prohibition you could find would be as it relates to public worship.
 

Richard King

Puritan Board Senior
out of curiousity... can we think of any other thing that God created that is deemed illegal in its natural state just as he created it? You don't have to smoke it or grow it in a decorative planter, if it is growing wild on your land you go to jail. Off hand I can't think of another God created plant or animal or mineral that is illegal in the fashion he made it.
 

crhoades

Puritan Board Graduate
Originally posted by Richard King
out of curiousity... can we think of any other thing that God created that is deemed illegal in its natural state just as he created it? You don't have to smoke it or grow it in a decorative planter, if it is growing wild on your land you go to jail. Off hand I can't think of another God created plant or animal or mineral that is illegal in the fashion he made it.

Hemp.:up::up: What a great commercial product that we can't grow because the feds would have a hard time differentiating it from pot...
 

crhoades

Puritan Board Graduate
Originally posted by tdowns007
What about psychedelic mushrooms?

Have you ever done them? They shouldn't be available. Had a very bad trip on them once and I can tell you that I wouldn't wish that on anyone. It is in a whole different category than Mary Jane.
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
Originally posted by crhoades
Originally posted by Richard King
out of curiousity... can we think of any other thing that God created that is deemed illegal in its natural state just as he created it? You don't have to smoke it or grow it in a decorative planter, if it is growing wild on your land you go to jail. Off hand I can't think of another God created plant or animal or mineral that is illegal in the fashion he made it.

Hemp.:up::up: What a great commercial product that we can't grow because the feds would have a hard time differentiating it from pot...

Chris,

Even by entertaining the notions of legalization of hemp for commercial purposes, you're helping the enemy right now-- namely drug users!! What if some kid thought he could get high by shredding a legal shirt made out of hemp, and then put it in a bong, and proceeded to smoke it? Ever think of that? Think about it. I sure haven't.
:cool:
 

crhoades

Puritan Board Graduate
Originally posted by Puritanhead
Originally posted by crhoades
Originally posted by Richard King
out of curiousity... can we think of any other thing that God created that is deemed illegal in its natural state just as he created it? You don't have to smoke it or grow it in a decorative planter, if it is growing wild on your land you go to jail. Off hand I can't think of another God created plant or animal or mineral that is illegal in the fashion he made it.

Hemp.:up::up: What a great commercial product that we can't grow because the feds would have a hard time differentiating it from pot...

Chris,

Even by entertaining the notions of legalization of hemp for commercial purposes, you're helping the enemy right now-- namely drug users!! What if some kid thought he could get high by shredding a legal shirt made out of hemp, and then put it in a bong, and proceeded to smoke it? Ever think of that? Think about it. I sure haven't.
:cool:

That would be worse than drinking 60 bottles of ODouls to get a buzz...:lol:

In college after I was really messed up one night, my loving roomates decided to play a joke on me and I had the choking pleasure of smoking oregano...my lungs still hurt...
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
Originally posted by crhoades
That would be worse than drinking 60 bottles of ODouls to get a buzz...:lol:

O'Douls... 60 bottles!!?!?!?! You would have to be high on something to even think of buying that stuff, much less drink it. Ewwwwwwwwwww!!!!!

Sprite packs a better buzz anyway, and costs less. Drink Sprite instead!!
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
Listen man, and wo-man! Even by talking about smoking catnip and oregano-- you guys are helping the enemy right now.
:um:
 

crhoades

Puritan Board Graduate
Originally posted by Puritanhead
Listen man, and wo-man! Even by talking about smoking catnip and oregano-- you guys are helping the enemy right now.
:um:

Maybe we are the enemy...:lol:
 

Peter

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by Richard King
out of curiousity... can we think of any other thing that God created that is deemed illegal in its natural state just as he created it? You don't have to smoke it or grow it in a decorative planter, if it is growing wild on your land you go to jail. Off hand I can't think of another God created plant or animal or mineral that is illegal in the fashion he made it.

No I can't think of anything. And I don't think owning the plant should be illegal either. I think being inebriated by it should be though.
 

Larry Hughes

Puritan Board Sophomore
I had to address this once in a youth class about drugs and this in general. And the short answer is "Yes it is." At first this shocks but is very easily seen and a great way to explain what sin is and is NOT (it goes along the whole alcohol and other lines of arguments).

And kids really understand this: For example a scapel is just an istrument formed from Iron (Fe), Chromium (Cr) and a few other fundamental elements by the arts of man. The Scaple and its constituent elements are of the Creation and as such are VERY good and gifts from God. Enter fallen man and sin as opposed to "things of creation making me do it or drawing me to do or addicting me to do it. In the hand of a surgeon a scapel is an instrument for great good and use. In this sense this gift from God is used to help alleviate the affects of the fall and love one's neighbor. However, in the hands of a raving killer or exceedingly angry person a scapel is still itself a good gift from God, YET it is being used for evil. Hence, we begin to see the real insidiousness of what sin really is. That is it uses even God's gifts for the giving and strengthening of life to actually kill and take life. Thus, we begin to REALLY see what sin is and is not.

The same applies to drugs of ANY kind, including marijuana. AND this is the reason that some well meaning Christians are so wrong minded on an issue like alcohol and actually CAUSE more harm and damage than good that they think they are doing. That is exuding the idea that the drug or the alcohol is the problem, the thing causing the addiction. When in fact they, if they are ever to be helped, must be brought to see that it is not the drug or the alcohol but one's fallen human heart. The only core of all sin. If an addict, like a drunk for example, is taught that alcohol is the problem, if he avoids this he will do well. He has been lied to and remains addicted EVEN though he may quit outwardly drinking. He is merely shifted from a "wet" drunk that society can't stand to look at to a "dry" drunk that society admires and cheers, yet he is worse than before. What has transpired in this and similar situations is the appeal to his will, the very problem, and thus he is a "wet" drunk defeated by it or a "dry" drunk thinking he's pulling it off.

Addiction has nothing causal to do with the object of addiction. Its the desire of the heart that IS the cause of addiction, it just "picks certain things to be addicted to". This is proven for example with gambling addictions that are as and often more intense than many alcoholic or drug addictions. Yet, NOTHING enters the body at ANY time nor does ANYTHING directly interact with the body. Addictions similar to this are addictions to exercise, so called "adrenaline" junkies, TV and etc... The issue every time is not the object the fallen heart sets upon but the fallen heart of man.

This is why EVERY form of astainance (prohibition, positions against alcohol as IF that is the problem) is fundamentally flawed and though it may produce "some" external results, it NEVER really results internally.

Men can understand this concerning the issue of sex. One can outwardly produce results but the inward struggle is always lurking.

Thus, the key is of course the Gospel and growth in that. Then one can learn to use good things appropriately (e.g. alcohol, food and etc...), enjoy them as they were meant to be enjoyed and thereby avoid their abuse either way as a "dry" or "wet" "drunk" (this I use here metaphorically for all addictions).

Abstinance programs are all legal programs that produce false outward results and in the end after a time actually perpetuate and cause the very problem they set out to solve. E.g. in countries where wine and alcohol are viewed as a gift from God the incidence of abuse and "addiction" are extremely low. Yet, in America where some forms of legal prohibitionism are still held to by religious groups alcoholism is high and continues to be a problem. Thus, in an attempt to cure a problem, biblical ignorance actually causes the problem and keeps it happening.

Kids actually get and understand this quicker than adults.

I hope that helps some,

Ldh
 

dust_and_ashes

Inactive User
wow... thanks larry!!! that was such a great answer! and you're in kentucky to boot! (i'm from ashland)... if only i would have had a youth pastor like you...:lol:
 

Scott Bushey

Puritanboard Commissioner
Can the term 'drunkeness' or 'inibriated' even be used when considering that marijuana is smoked or eaten? Intoxication would be the better description. Is the word intoxication interchangeable with drunkeness? I believe that marijuana would fall under witchcraft, sorcery, pharmacopeia in the bible, not drunkeness.


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[Edited on 6-17-2006 by Scott Bushey]

[Edited on 6-17-2006 by Scott Bushey]
 
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