Mark Driscoll, the Trinity, and W. G. T. Shedd

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Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
Unfortunately, the Trinitarian God is just not explicitly preached that often from the pulpit of the church militant. Could it stem from mist in the pulpit on solid knowledge of the doctrine? I just don't know. I fear that the mystery of the doctrine of the Trinity has become an excuse to avoid digging deeper.

I think this is correct. In my hometown, the largest religious center is United Pentecostal. I used to be a member of a congregation of the OPC there. The pastor was dismayed that older members would just shrug off questions about their children (most of whom had been raised in a more or less confessional Presbyterian church) attending this UPC organization with comments like "It's the same Jesus." Confessional congregation or not, if this truth is not preached consistently, people will not be able to discern truth from error on the subject of the Trinity, or other subjects for that matter.
 

KMK

Administrator
Staff member
The Christian Ed minister at the church heard what happened and called him into his office. He gently chastised him and told him that at this particular church they didn't go into deep doctrine. "Teach every class like it's a person's first time in a church ever" was the advice he was given.

I was once chastised in a Romans Bible study for asking questions that went too deeply into doctrine. I was told, "Sometimes it is better to just enjoy some yogurt. You can't expect steak at every meal."


"It's the same Jesus."

Many in my town say the same thing about Mormonism.
 

Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
Yes, I thank you very much. I am in the middle of of this in that we have a niece that attends a church that in their belief statement uses manifestations to describe God. What bugs me to no end is that the broad view of most Christians I know just shrug their shoulders and look at me as a kook. I hope someone who Driscoll admires (calling John Piper) puts his feet to the fire because we are speaking of shepherds guarding the flock from wolves.

Regarding Piper putting his feet to the fire, let's hope and pray that MD will see the error of his ways here. But keep in mind that the church Driscoll pastors is bigger than Piper's now, (probably several times over) and the following post ER II quote from Driscoll indicates a significant factor in his mentality now with regard to relating to other ministries:

I say that not to brag, but to show how wonderfully complex it is to try and steward so much of God’s grace and so many people. Nothing changes until the leader changes, and I have a lot to learn. While I can and do learn a lot theologically from my tribe, the truth is there are not many evangelistically fruitful churches in my tribe and there are not any churches larger than ours I can learn from. So, I have to go outside of my theological tribe to learn certain things.

While generally not in the camp of the members of the Puritanboard (although at one point or another a few have posted here occasionally, If I recall correctly) I have little doubt that a good number of the men who joined the Acts 29 Network did not do so with the intention of throwing in their lot with the megachurch trend of the 2010's. At least one pastor has already left that network over ER II. Additionally, at least one church has left the Harvest association (James McDonald's group) over it as well. Let's hope more of that happens in the unfortunate event of a continuation of this trend toward a pragmatic atheological megachurch mentality on the part of the leaders of those networks as evidenced by their recent association with leaders like Noble, Furtick and now Jakes.
 

Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
The Christian Ed minister at the church heard what happened and called him into his office. He gently chastised him and told him that at this particular church they didn't go into deep doctrine. "Teach every class like it's a person's first time in a church ever" was the advice he was given.

I was once chastised in a Romans Bible study for asking questions that went too deeply into doctrine. I was told, "Sometimes it is better to just enjoy some yogurt. You can't expect steak at every meal."


"It's the same Jesus."

Many in my town say the same thing about Mormonism.

I have met PCA RE's (and at least one TE) who are unable to discern the difference between Roman Catholicism as an institution to be separated from as the confession teaches WRT marriage to Papists, etc. and the fact that some individual Roman Catholics are among the elect in spite of Rome's teaching.
 

J. Dean

Puritan Board Junior
Ah, Driscoll throws in his lot with the "numbers determine success" branch of evanjellyfishism. Furtick is rubbing off on him.

Agreed. It is sheer folly to uncritically believe that numerical largesse implies true Christianity. Driscoll sounds like the preachers in the 19th century who sided with Charles Finney because his "ministry" got "results."
 

Marrow Man

Drunk with Powder
Driscoll sounds like the preachers in the 19th century who sided with Charles Finney because his "ministry" got "results."

And one of Finney's contemporaries (Archibald Alexander maybe?) estimated that about 90% of Finney's "converts" had abandoned the church within a decade of their "conversion."
 

sastark

Puritan Board Graduate
This thread is moving me to do a sermon series on the Apostles Creed over the summer.

You mean the Nicene? (sorry, a little humor since Driscoll incorrectly identifies the Nicene Creed as the Apostles Creed in the quote I reference in my article.)
 
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Dearly Bought

Puritan Board Junior
One of the things which I really appreciate about my church is that we confess the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, the Formula of Chalcedon, and the Athanasian Creed. In fact, the information on the back of our Lord's Day bulletin explicitly mentions this (link). All four of these ecumenical creeds deserve to be adopted by Reformed churches in continuity with the church throughout the ages.
 

MarieP

Puritan Board Senior
We do make a point in our services to frequently select hymns setting forth the doctrine of the Trinity. I suppose we could/should look for more legitimate opportunities to bring it out in the regular expositions of passages in preaching through books of the bible.

Perhaps the confusion and sidelining of the Trinity comes in large part from the disappearance of the Trinity from modern church music. It's been said by more than a few that a church's theology is seldom higher than what she sings.
 
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