mark, name, or number of the beast.

[Bladestunner316]

Paul,
Im curious say for example a historicist explains revelation through the glasses of history how are they any different then futurists explaing revelation through current events?

Where is their forgive me if you allready mentioned it a book by first century christians not the arian eusubius but chrstians explaining revelatiosn prophecy through all those events you mentioned happening when you said they happened?

blade

 

[Bladestunner316]

What about 2nd thess wasnt this book written to counter that Jesus had come? But yet amill or preterist Im not sure which you are says he allready came? So what am I to look forward to? besides death. Also wasnt 2nd thess written after revelations?

blade

 

[Abd_Yesua_alMasih]

Oh an Hebrew prophecy, isnt it different from Greek prophecy as it is like history repeating itself? With the Greeks isnt it once something foretold has happened you never have to think of it again but dont the Hebrews have a different view on it? So while revelation etc... might have refrences you might link in with 70AD is it not possible that it could be talking about something like it in the future... I am confusing myself...

Certainly Jesus talks about the city being destroyed etc... but I am not sure how much of revelation is based in 70AD or in the future.

 

[Bladestunner316]

whatever the real answer is Ill have to be satisfied it would seem their are holes in all arguments especially futurism but there are differing aspects of futurism.

What puzzles me is the idea of two second comings in Pauls version I know the first is not physical according to what I think you said correct if im wrong.

The other is In what order should I take revelation and what is symbolic and what is literal and what are both?

Also could church history 2000 years be symbolic for the last years leading up to the return of Christ physically?

blade

 

[Abd_Yesua_alMasih]

Thanks for the explanation Paul.

 

[Abd_Yesua_alMasih]

Hey Paul, do you think there is anything prophetic or spiritual about the reconstruction of the state of Israel?

 

[Abd_Yesua_alMasih]

Sorry for all the posts...

Also, while this does not disprove anything above I wanted to point out Nero died in 68AD...

Can someone explain chapter 17 of Revelation for me also? I am guessing everything up to chapter 19 has already taken place then?

Nero was the sixth Roman Emperor
"10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while."
The Emperor following Nero (the seventh) only lasted a few months.

This is where it gets confusing - there is lots of evidence that some of this happened in 70AD BUT by chapter 19 there is no evidence of a long gap etc... but by then it appears a great rapture has taken place.

 

[andreas]

**Hey Paul, do you think there is anything prophetic or spiritual about the reconstruction of the state of Israel?**

God owes nothing to the nation of Israel in the Middle East.He fulfilled all promises.Finished,Nothing more.

"And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which He sware to give unto their Fathers; And they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that He sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.

There Failed Not Ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; All Came To Pass". Joshua 21:43
andreas.

 

[ReformedWretch]

Well, I just ordered 4 of the books you recomended Paul. This idea is getting easier and easier for me to believe. I still have a ton to learn/understand, but I am starting to see it.

I dunno if you all know how HUGE that is for me. In the past I could almost come to blows with anyone who suggested futurism was incorrect! I lived on www.raptureready.com

 

[Ianterrell]

Adam welcome aboard!

I grew up the same way, I was never a defender of futurism, but I was steeped in it. I was always watching the headlines, every time I would get on the internet I would check up on the European Union...

 

[ReformedWretch]

THanks Ian!

Now, before I say what I am about to say keep in mind that I am still learning!

Ok, here goes.

What's making me reconsider so much is the following;

1)God bringing the "great tribulation" upon Israel because they refused to stop animal sacrafice and rejected the true Saviour seems to make sense to me.

2) Daniel being about something different than Revelation and Matthew 24 seems to make sense. Yet I have not completely understood this yet.

3) Nero's regin being 42 months seems more than a coinsodence to me!

4) All the refrences to soon in Revelation and Matt 24 just can't be ignored.

5) ANd most importantly (to me at this point anyways as I LEARN more) is the obvious selling of end times material! Every time the latest book fades out a new one comes to take its place. How many times and in how many ways is the end going to be predicted?!

BUT!!!

And this is a huge but, I don't know if I will ever reach a time where I can say as Paul did in this topic, that I will take a literal mark in my head or hand in order to buy or sell! I can accept that this may not happen and if it does it may have nothing to do with Revelation, but I doubt I'll ever be comfortable enough to accept something like that.