Max Weber on Protestants/Calvinists

[user98Luke]

Curious what you guys think of this, I've never heard this argument before. This is from the textbook being used in the sociology class I just started:

"Weber (1904/1958) theorized that the Roman Catholic belief system encouraged followers to hold on to their traditional ways of life, while the Protestant belief system encouraged its members to embrace change. Roman Catholics were taught that because they were Church members they were on the road to heaven, but Protestants, those of the Calvinist tradition, were told that they wouldn’t know if they were saved until Judgment Day. You can see why this made them uncomfortable. Calvinists began to look for a “sign” that they were in God’s will. They found this “sign” in financial success, which they took as a blessing that indicated that God was on their side. To bring about this “sign” and receive spiritual comfort, they began to live frugal lives, saving their money and investing it in order to make even more. This accumulation and investment of capital, said Weber, brought about the birth of capitalism."

I've never heard about Calvinists finding assurance of salvation in financial success?? what??

Source: Essentials of Sociology: A Down-To-Earth Approach, Twelfth Edition, by James M. Henslin.

 

[hLuke]

but Protestants, those of the Calvinist tradition, were told that they wouldn’t know if they were saved until Judgment Day.

It's almost as if the author of the textbook got R.C's and Reformed mixed up-- or he intentionally twists the narrative to paint a bad image of biblical Christianity.
And what does 'theorised' mean anyways? Weber can theorise whatever he wants. Whether it's true is another issue.
If anything we reformed believers have assurance of salvation; whereas R.C's don't.
R.C's are taught that their good works merit graces of salvation aren't even sure if they'll go to heaven when they die but Calvinists know and trust that Christ has already saved the believer before the foundation of the world gifting them by his grace eternal life for certain-- surely such a gift empowers the believer to good and diligent works in this world investing for the life to come.

 

[MountainPilgrim]

You didn't really think you'd get accurate theological descriptions from sociology, did you? When I took the course, I was amused to hear that Calvinists hold themselves as a "higher class" of humanity, since they believe they are actually "chosen by God." I had to chuckle. Clearly, the general sociologist doesn't have much of an understanding of the Reformed tradition. Frankly, Brother, I wouldn't expect much accuracy in regards to the Faith from your class, and I certainly wouldn't expect any less from an anti-theist such as Weber. If your curiosity compels you, if you dig a bit deeper into the history of sociology, I think you'll find all you need to know about how that "science" interacts with the Christian Faith. It did give us Critical Theory, after all...

 

[Eyedoc84]

Curious what you guys think of this, I've never heard this argument before. This is from the textbook being used in the sociology class I just started:

"Weber (1904/1958) theorized that the Roman Catholic belief system encouraged followers to hold on to their traditional ways of life, while the Protestant belief system encouraged its members to embrace change. Roman Catholics were taught that because they were Church members they were on the road to heaven, but Protestants, those of the Calvinist tradition, were told that they wouldn’t know if they were saved until Judgment Day. You can see why this made them uncomfortable. Calvinists began to look for a “sign” that they were in God’s will. They found this “sign” in financial success, which they took as a blessing that indicated that God was on their side. To bring about this “sign” and receive spiritual comfort, they began to live frugal lives, saving their money and investing it in order to make even more. This accumulation and investment of capital, said Weber, brought about the birth of capitalism."

I've never heard about Calvinists finding assurance of salvation in financial success?? what??

Source: Essentials of Sociology: A Down-To-Earth Approach, Twelfth Edition, by James M. Henslin.

Somebody didn’t read primary sources. Or they are lying.

 

[arapahoepark]

The Weber thesis has been debunked. As Denver says, he obviously didn't read the primary sources.
I do recall this being spoken of back in my high school history days.

 

[VictorBravo]

It's been probably 45 years since I read The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, but the description at the start of this post does not sound like Weber. Someone is badly misreading him. He was not so trite and facile.

I never thought Weber's "Protestant work ethic" was very controversial. He noted that Protestants, especially Calvinists, taught that any honest labor could be glorifying to God and enjoying the fruits of that labor was consistent with their faith.

This was contrasted with the Roman Catholic ethic that certain callings were "high" like the priesthood, and others were mundane.

The observation Weber made was that Calvinist cultures tended to become more capitalistic than Roman Catholic ones. Joe Morecraft made the same sorts of observations at the beginning of this century.

 

[Taylor]

It's been probably 45 years since I read The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, but the description at the start of this post does not sound like Weber. Someone is badly misreading him. He was not so trite and facile.

I never thought Weber's "Protestant work ethic" was very controversial. He noted that Protestants, especially Calvinists, taught that any honest labor could be glorifying to God and enjoying the fruits of that labor was consistent with their faith.

This was contrasted with the Roman Catholic ethic that certain callings were "high" like the priesthood, and others were mundane.

The observation Weber made was that Calvinist cultures tended to become more capitalistic than Roman Catholic ones. Joe Morecraft made the same sorts of observations at the beginning of this century.

I agree with this. I remember briefly discussing Weber and his "hypothesis" in church history class in seminary, and the quotation in the OP does not sound like him.

 

[user98Luke]

You didn't really think you'd get accurate theological descriptions from sociology, did you? When I took the course, I was amused to hear that Calvinists hold themselves as a "higher class" of humanity, since they believe they are actually "chosen by God." I had to chuckle. Clearly, the general sociologist doesn't have much of an understanding of the Reformed tradition. Frankly, Brother, I wouldn't expect much accuracy in regards to the Faith from your class, and I certainly wouldn't expect any less from an anti-theist such as Weber. If your curiosity compels you, if you dig a bit deeper into the history of sociology, I think you'll find all you need to know about how that "science" interacts with the Christian Faith. It did give us Critical Theory, after all...

I understand your points here. Sadly, this is the textbook at a "Christian" university. I knew not to expect high standards in that area though. I think there are many beneficial aspects of sociology, but yes, CRT and other things are silly.