Moral Absolutes: Lying

[DonP]

I would add here that God does use the acts of sinful people to accomplish His ends. Not that He would need to but He chooses to. And He does this in a way that He is free of sin.

Whereas this does not give us warrant to sin that good may come.

ie Rahab's lying may have been used by God to protect the spies, but it was not needed, it was just what was.

It is no basis for us to lie. We should pray for the inspectors to be blinded to the spies or go blind, or get sick or any other thing we have seen God use as a means.

So if Rahab had told the spies she would lie to protect them, should they have accepted or found another means?

What about us, if we have prior knowledge can we condone a sinner to do this?

Rahab was profession to be a Jew proselyte too.

 

[Dieter Schneider]

What about D Bonhoeffer? Also check J.I. Packer on Situation Ethics. And there is more here on the subject of ethics.
A question to y'all. Can it ever be right for Christians to choose the 'lesser evil'? Jesus never did - aren't we supposed to be like Him?! I don't agree with I A Torrance but he sounds interesting.

 

[DonP]

John 7:23-24
23 If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath? 24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
NKJV

Mark 2:25-28
"Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him: 26 how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?"
27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. NKJV


We must use care that we do not mix things that are not the same

One who pushes a blind man off a cliff so he may take his goods,
And One who pushes a blind man so he does not walk off a cliff
are not equally just people who push blind men.

 

[SolaScriptura]

One who pushes a blind man off a cliff so he may take his goods,
And One who pushes a blind man so he does not walk off a cliff
are not equally just people who push blind men.

There is much wisdom in this example. Much.

But wait, wait, that requires too much abstract thought... No... it's wrong to push people! They're both pushers! They're both wrong!

 

[DonP]

But wait, wait, that requires too much abstract thought... No... it's wrong to push people! They're both pushers! They're both wrong!

You peace love dovey

I should have used an example that would have locked you in full jacket.

One who shoots a man to steal his wallet, and
One shoots a man who is about to throw a had grenade at his team
Are not equally both
men who shoot and kill people.

Does that concrete it a bit more for you

yea we are in agreement now for sure

 

[Claudiu]

Another important thing that we have to look at as well, is what is the truth? What does the Bible say that Truth is? When talking about a lie, to get a better understanding of what constitutes a lie is to see what they see as the truth.

The basic dictionary definition of the "truth" is: conformity to reality or actuality; a fact that has been verified

Here is what the wiki article says on truth: "The word truth has a variety of meanings, from honesty, good faith, and sincerity in general, to agreement with fact or reality in particular.[1] The term has no single definition about which a majority of professional philosophers and scholars agree, and various theories of truth continue to be debated. There are differing claims on such questions as what constitutes truth; what things are truthbearers capable of being true or false; how to define and identify truth; the roles that revealed and acquired knowledge play; and whether truth is subjective, relative, objective, or absolute. This article introduces the various perspectives and claims, both today and throughout history." (Truth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

However, we need to look at the situation from a Biblical perspective. (Not just a philosophical)

Any input?

 

[Reformed Thomist]

Is something true because God says so, or does God say so because it is something true?

 

[reformed trucker]

If anyone has Dr. Bahnsen's 48 lecture Systematic Theology series, he discusses this on lecture #46 at the 3:30 mark. He covers the Nazi example, Rahab, Samuel, and God sending a lying spirit to decieve Israel's enemies.