Must we always forgive - even if God doesn't?

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Tim,

I don't understand the part about being "internally forgiving." One can accept God's bitter providences, but this is not forgiveness towards a human perpetrator of injustice.

The Lord's prayer says "Forgive us our debts as we also have forgiven our debtors." Do we want God to forgive all our sins or just the ones from which we have repented?

As one acts in a forgiving manner, one is being forgiving. Forgiveness is a moral act and not merely a sentiment.

I suppose you mean that I should not let things eat me up inside if such a scenario were to happen. But if one suffers a trauma in their life, mere unforgiveness won't eat up a victim any more than other emotions such as second-guessing, wondering why me in general, or grief at loss.

I did not mean that. I meant a true forgiveness must be reached internally despite a lack of repentence and reconcilliation. God commands us to forgive and what makes it possible for us to do so in situations where repentance and reconcilliation is not present is that we are certain that the sin will not be "unpunished" but paid for either in the death of Christ or by an eternity spent in hell. I find it hard to believe how anyone who has any true conception of the what the latter entails could ever wish (in cold blood) for any enemy to go there and I find it easy to understand how someone might truly pray, in the heat of being sinned against, "Lord lay not this sin to their charge." This despite having a daily struggle to reach a state of forgiveness WRT a particular person who has not repented of sin against me.

There would be a readiness to receive repentance and a willingness to treat one's enemies to loving acts (such as a medic treating enemy wounded even though they are still enemies) but I don't see any sin in not forgiving if the perp does not repent. An argument that forgiving even when repentance is not present might be said to be psychologically healthy, but I think many psychological concepts that we take as settled are really and truly wrong.

I also think that we cannot drive a huge wedge between the moral nature of God and the moral nature that we should desire in ourselves. We are made in the image of God and Jesus was both God and man and he is to be imitated. Therefore, it is very relevant that God only forgives when there is repentance, and I believe this is a model for us as well.

God does not forgive on the basis of human repentance. Before He regenerates any sinner, He forgives that sinner on the basis of His grace, a grace justified by Christ's death in which the sins of the sinner receive their just punishment. Since God does not forgive where there is repentance, "forgiving on repentance only" cannot be our model.
 
As far as internal attitude, perhaps one should "stand ready to forgive" i.e. have no bitterness etc.. towards the person etc... but at the same time one shouldn't be pressured by guilt manipulation to forgive until restitution is made.

So, someone steals my chainsaw. It hurts me financially because I need it to make money. I don't have fantasies about him getting AIDS or paralyzed in a car wreck or beating him up, but I still demand restitution (i.e. I don't forgive him), but I stand ready to do so without hate or bitterness.
 
As far as internal attitude, perhaps one should "stand ready to forgive" i.e. have no bitterness etc.. towards the person etc... but at the same time one shouldn't be pressured by guilt manipulation to forgive until restitution is made.

So, someone steals my chainsaw. It hurts me financially because I need it to make money. I don't have fantasies about him getting AIDS or paralyzed in a car wreck or beating him up, but I still demand restitution (i.e. I don't forgive him), but I stand ready to do so without hate or bitterness.

Yes, Tim, I agree. And so this would also make our morality to mirror God's morality because God does the same thing.

---------- Post added at 07:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 AM ----------

Tim,

I don't understand the part about being "internally forgiving." One can accept God's bitter providences, but this is not forgiveness towards a human perpetrator of injustice.

The Lord's prayer says "Forgive us our debts as we also have forgiven our debtors." Do we want God to forgive all our sins or just the ones from which we have repented?

As one acts in a forgiving manner, one is being forgiving. Forgiveness is a moral act and not merely a sentiment.

I suppose you mean that I should not let things eat me up inside if such a scenario were to happen. But if one suffers a trauma in their life, mere unforgiveness won't eat up a victim any more than other emotions such as second-guessing, wondering why me in general, or grief at loss.

I did not mean that. I meant a true forgiveness must be reached internally despite a lack of repentence and reconcilliation. God commands us to forgive and what makes it possible for us to do so in situations where repentance and reconcilliation is not present is that we are certain that the sin will not be "unpunished" but paid for either in the death of Christ or by an eternity spent in hell. I find it hard to believe how anyone who has any true conception of the what the latter entails could ever wish (in cold blood) for any enemy to go there and I find it easy to understand how someone might truly pray, in the heat of being sinned against, "Lord lay not this sin to their charge." This despite having a daily struggle to reach a state of forgiveness WRT a particular person who has not repented of sin against me.

There would be a readiness to receive repentance and a willingness to treat one's enemies to loving acts (such as a medic treating enemy wounded even though they are still enemies) but I don't see any sin in not forgiving if the perp does not repent. An argument that forgiving even when repentance is not present might be said to be psychologically healthy, but I think many psychological concepts that we take as settled are really and truly wrong.

I also think that we cannot drive a huge wedge between the moral nature of God and the moral nature that we should desire in ourselves. We are made in the image of God and Jesus was both God and man and he is to be imitated. Therefore, it is very relevant that God only forgives when there is repentance, and I believe this is a model for us as well.

God does not forgive on the basis of human repentance. Before He regenerates any sinner, He forgives that sinner on the basis of His grace, a grace justified by Christ's death in which the sins of the sinner receive their just punishment. Since God does not forgive where there is repentance, "forgiving on repentance only" cannot be our model.

The Westminster Confession of Faith speaks of the necessity of repentance:
"Although repentance be not to be rested in as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof, which is the act of God's free grace in Christ; yet is it of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it.” (The Westminster Confession of Faith, 15:1-3).
 
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