Originally posted by pduggan
Originally posted by fredtgreco The Biblical view is that we are brought into the people of God because we are right with God;
Do we receive the Spirit of Sonship at some later point after the Spirit regenerates us then? And aren't we members of the invisible church before we are even called?
The ordo salutis is not (and was never intended to be) a strict chronological order, but rather a logical order. So while adoption happens simultaneously with justification, it is (as the WLC states) granted to the justified, not the reverse. This gets us to the nature of faith itself - which is another area that Wright botches - the faith of the believer is in Christ as the one crucified for him (cf. Isa 55; 1 Cor. 1:23) and it is on that basis that Christ becomes his King. The believer's faith is not in the sovereignty of Christ - the demons even believe that - but in the one who has borne the believer's own sins on the tree (1 Peter 2:24)
Originally posted by pduggan
Or perhaps we/I/wright? need to distinguish 'people of god' as being a part of the Messiah from being a 'child of god' maybe in an eschatological sense.andThe union which the elect have with Christ is the work of God's grace, whereby they are spiritually and mystically, yet really and inseparably, joined to Christ as their head and husband; which is done in their effectual calling.The communion in grace which the members of the invisible church have with Christ, is their partaking of the virtue of his mediation, in their justification, adoption, sanctification, and whatever else, in this life, manifests their union with him.
Paul,
I trust that it is Wright who needs to revise his thinking and not you, since you have made the Westminster Standards your confession of faith, and he has not - indeed he radically departs from them.
As for the sections from the Confession you cite, they are perfectly correct, but they speak of the believer qua his election, not qua the ordo and his act of faith. That is why the same Confession can say:
WCF 11:4 God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect; and Christ did, in the fulness of time, die for their sins, and rise again for their justification: nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them.
If we strictly take union with Christ in an absolute sense with respect to adoption, we must take it so with justification, and that is clearly contrary to the express language of 11.4. So the simple answer is that it cannot mean that.