Need help on Matthew 26:39

[Anton Bruckner]

Can you guys give me some info on this verse. The problem I am having with it, is that it seems to portray that Jesus had a desire contrary to the desire of the Father thus praying, "If it is possible remove this cup"

I know it has something to do with his human nature etc. But I cannot seem to put my hand on it, and yet it is tormenting me.


Much thanks.

 

[ReformedWretch]

I'll take a shot.

I think this was just sadness on Christ's part. Not because He didn't want to attone for our sin, but because of everything it entailed. I believe what He was most greived over was bearing the weight of the sin of the world because of how He suspected that HAD to feel and wear on Him, and seperation from the Father even if only for a short while.

Like Lamentations 1:13 says

13"From on high he sent fire;
into my bones[a] he made it descend;
he spread a net for my feet;
he turned me back;
he has left me stunned,
faint all the day long.

 

[andreas]

Christ knew he had to die,

"Except a grain of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone; but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit" John 12:24.

In verse 27 He says, "What shall I say? Father, save me from this hour? But for this cause came I unto this hour."

Christ did not ask God to save Him from death, but when faced with the pain and horror of His impending crucifixion, He asked if it were possible for God's plan to be fulfilled in another way.He was a man yet without sin ,but He was tempted like the rest of us.The will of the Father is sovereign,and Christ accepted that.It applies to us all,when we are faced with our garden of temptation.The question we should ask is, are we going to triumph over the temptation as Christ's humanity did?

andreas.

 

[Contra_Mundum]

Some more of the mystery of the hypostatic union (the doctrine of the two natures--one human, one divine--united in one person).

Jesus knew that he had to suffer and die. This is clear, and the above Scriptures confirm it. Yet, he had to face both that knowledge and the event. He had to face it, knowing better than any of us can pitifully imagine what that suffering would entail, in both body and (vastly greater) in spirit. The infinte wrath of God...

The reality of his shrinking flesh--does this not the more endear us to him? To his true humanity?

"He also in like manner partook of the same" (Heb. 2:14); "It behooved him in all things to be made like unto his brethren, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest" (v. 17); "For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succor thme that are tempted" (v. 18); "For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmites; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (4:15)

If Jesus could have faced his cross without so much as a shiver of dread, faced the greatest trial in the history of the cosmos without showing a shade of inner turmoil, how superhuman he would appear! How utterly beyond our ability even to imitate him. True, he might have set an example for us of adamantine resolution, without a crack in his "face of flint" (Is 50:7; Lk. 9:51); but we would be the poorer for not seeing behind the mask. The disquiet in our own souls would give us ever greater cause to question our faith, lacking the "serenity" of Jesus.

How many quaking souls, in the hour of trial, in the hour of persecution, in the face of death have drawn strength from the example of Jesus, facing his terribly real fears, casting himself upon the mercies of the Father, submitting to the will of God in faith believing (see Heb. 5:7). Here! at the moment Hell descends upon him in the decisive battle determined (if possible) to make this would-be Savior flinch at the last moment--here, we find him still teaching us how to live the life of faith.

Have you praised this Savior today?

 

[blhowes]

to what's already been said.

I like John Gill's thoughts on this verse:

If it be possible, let this cup pass from me; meaning not only the hour, as it is called in Mark, the present season and time of distress, and horror; but all his future sufferings and death, which were at hand; together with the bearing the sins of his people, the enduring the curse of the law, and the wrath of God, all which were ingredients in, and made up this dreadful bitter cup, this cup of fury, cursing, and trembling;

...and when he prays that this cup might pass from him, his meaning is, that he might be freed from the present horrors of his mind, be excused the sufferings of death, and be delivered from the curse of the law, and wrath of God; which request was made without sin, though it betrayed the weakness of the human nature under its insupportable load, and its reluctance to sufferings and death, which is natural; and yet does not represent him herein as inferior to martyrs, who have desired death, and triumphed in the midst of exquisite torments: for their case and his were widely different; they had the presence of God with them, Christ was under the hidings of his Father's face; they had the love of God shed abroad in them, he had the wrath of God poured out upon him; and his prayer bespeaks him to be in a condition which neither they, nor any mortal creature were ever in.

I don't think we can fathom the depths of his struggle while he was praying in the garden. He knew perfectly well the sufferings he faced. I can only guess that the sufferings he dreaded most are summarized in His words spoken later, "My God! My God! Why hast thou for me?". For all of eternity past, there was perfect fellowship between God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We can only imagine the anguish of thought Jesus experienced as he considered being utterly forsaken by God the Father.

I can't remember who preached the sermon, but I like his thoughts. When Jesus struggled in the garden and said, "If it is possible, remove this cup", the answer we come away from the garden with is that, to accomplish the salvation for his people, its impossible to do it any other way. There is no other way for a person to be saved but by Jesus going to the cross and suffering God's wrath in the place of sinful man. As Jesus said in John 14:6:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[Edited on 11-12-2004 by blhowes]

 

[just_grace]

Absolute proof of Christ's humanity, tempted as any of us are.

Bless Him. Praise your Name Jesus.

Originally posted by Slippery
Can you guys give me some info on this verse. The problem I am having with it, is that it seems to portray that Jesus had a desire contrary to the desire of the Father thus praying, "If it is possible remove this cup"

I know it has something to do with his human nature etc. But I cannot seem to put my hand on it, and yet it is tormenting me.


Much thanks.

Why is it tormenting you? Do you not know Christ?
Me too.... How close are we to Him, and if not, WHY?

David


[Edited on 12-11-2004 by just_grace]

 

[Anton Bruckner]

I guess it tormented me because of possible contradiction in wills.

But Thanks to Hebrews I figured it out in part and put it to rest.

Heb 5:8 Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

Much thanks to those who offered explanations also.

 

[fredtgreco]

Keon,

This verse also shows the orthodox doctrine of Christ having two wills (dythelitism), human and divine, independent and yet ever in harmony.

A small glimpse of how our wills will be conformed to His in glory. Ever distinct (as opposed to Hindu absorption), and yet ever in harmony.