Never, Never, Never Shake a Prophetess

Discussion in 'Cults & World Religions' started by Theogenes, Jul 18, 2008.

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  1. Stephen

    Stephen Puritan Board Junior

    I was also associated with some of these groups at one time and never saw such nonsense and deception in my life. I am thankful that the Lord brought you out of such deception, brother. Welcome to the PB. :handshake:
  2. Reformed Baptist

    Reformed Baptist Puritan Board Sophomore

    Expecting this movment to be charismatic, and therefore subscribe to a second work of the Holy Spirit beyond regeneration, why not critique the statement of faith of what is probably the "leading" church in the movement, MorningStar. You can read their statement of faith here MorningStar Ministries : Statement of Faith

    I would submit the following errors, doctrinally, with this movement aside from the obvious on the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the present ministry of the Holy Spirit.

    1. "When Jesus is lifted up, He will draw all people to Himself. We consider it the primary purpose of the church to esteem and exalt Jesus in every way. It is the focus and devotion of MorningStar Ministries to know and preach Him, and not ourselves." This is an obvious misinterpreation of John 12:32 which speaks of His atoning sacrifice for every tongue, tribe, and nation.

    2. Their statement, "On man" is confusing at best. It seems to allude to the doctrine of original sin, but it is not clear at all. The statements under "On the Atonement" lay further confusion to their beliefs in that they say, "Because all have sinned and are therefore under the sentence of death..." So which is it? When they wrote concerning man, they say, "The first man, Adam, transgressed the command of God, and as God had warned, the process of death entered him and all of his descendants because of that transgression. Therefore, all have sinned and are worthy of the sentence of death." So which is it?

    3. "Those who trust in Jesus Christ have access to the Throne of Grace by His sacrifice and by His sacrifice alone." You will notice this repeated several times concerning "access to the Throne of Grace" As one who was involved in this church for years, it is most likely their statement affirming the "manifestations" you see and hear in their videos. They are seeking a "secret place" through the blood of Jesus Christ to access this "Throne of Grace" wherein they completely wrest Hebrews 4:16 from its context and plain meaning, and apply a mystical experience to it.

    4. Their statement on the new birth, or regeneration, is odd at best. They state, "Believing in our hearts that Jesus is the Son of God and in His propitiation made for our salvation results in a regeneration and renewal that constitutes our new birth into new creations." Certainly belief that Jesus is the Son of God is needed. But what they are describing should be the faith given as a gift by the work of regeneration in heart of man unto believing that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9

    5. Their statements under "On the purpose of faith" is, if I may be bold (but open to be corrected) is rank heresy. "True faith is of the heart and not just the mind (Romans 10:10). God's purpose in requiring faith for salvation is to raise our focus and concentration above the temporal to the One who is eternal." The first part of the statement gives justification to a believing without the mind. (I was The second past of this statement is a denial of justification. God's purpose for faith in Jesus Christ is NOT to "raise our focus and concentration" but to justify the ungodly through Jesus Christ by faith.

    Romans 3:30 "Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

    Galatians 3:8 "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed."

    Much more can be said to prove the doctrine of justification by faith alone, but I wanted the board to see what they are doing. After their statement regarding the purpose of faith which I quoted here, they state under the same heading, "Therefore, the gospel that is able to save souls must be preached in the power of the Spirit of God." Again, this is to lay justification for what they are doing "in the Spirit of God."

    Unless the Lord does it, we will hardly get an audience with these folks to be heard, let alone the leadership. I am personally amazed at how silent solid, bible-believing churches have been in regards to this movement. And when its critiqued, its usually a mere reaction to the strange behavior that is seen among them.

    But the Lord has not left them without some good. They claim that, "We do not accept any doctrine which contradicts Scripture." and, "We do not accept any revelation, vision, dream, prophecy or discernment as truth which contradicts Scripture, or cannot be verified by it. We do not believe that any other writings have the same authority as the canon of Scripture."

    Have they not, to whatever degree, just affirmed Sola Scriptura, albeit by practice are denying it? Perhaps it is time by God's grace and will someone examine the movement and particularly this church which seems to be at the forefront, and apply their own confession of their faith and test their doctrine and practice by the Scriptures.

  3. wmc1982

    wmc1982 Puritan Board Freshman


    I found out that many members at the church I left are going weekly to that Morning Star church, attempting to "bring back the spirit" to their church. They feel as though a worship service failed if everyone didn't receive some great feeling or excitement during the service. People seem to be looked down upon if they don't jump up and down, start yelling, or be in tears.

    All seems to be selfish and emotional based. Some people just trade one high for another. A worship service should be about focusing on and worshipping God, not being about what we can get for ourselves. When you seek God first in all that you do, your life will be filled with blessing even when you don't realize it. I feel most blessed in times of suffering and tribulation, as I get to suffer along side of Christ.

    2 Cor 4:8-11
  4. Reformed Baptist

    Reformed Baptist Puritan Board Sophomore

    Very typical of the movement. They are evangelizing this "move of God" as they call it instead of Christ. But I am pretty sure their statement of faith plants MorningStar in the camp of heretics.

    Does anyone on the board think I have misunderstood their statement on the purpose of faith?
  5. Reformed Baptist

    Reformed Baptist Puritan Board Sophomore

    BTW, I asked the board before where their denial was of essential of doctrine. Well, I think I found it myself. The Lord will save His elect who may have been caught up in the movement. That the leadership of this movment are heretics I am now convinced, but I am open to being wrong about that.

    Being the case, that they pervert the Gospel of Christ and redefine the biblical doctrine of justification by faith alone--let them be anathama. I say this with great sorrow in my heart. :(
  6. 3John2

    3John2 Puritan Board Freshman

    My same sentiments!!! I'm so ashamed to say I came OUT of that garbage. Praise God for leading to the Reformed path which is rooted in God's Word.
  7. kvanlaan

    kvanlaan Puritan Board Doctor

    Geoff, I've just read through the posts and want to counsel you to please not misconstrue Josh's zeal on this issue. I myself have done so in another recent thread on this very topic and we got very crossways over, essentially, our agreement on the subject.

    We MUST call sin sin. We can look at the history of Christianity and see, in almost every instance, that when the true church did not zealously seek to dig out heterodox behavior, these ideas took root and often ended up destroying faithful churches. If we look at the CRC in the 1920's, we see a church at the top of its game, but beset by modern social pressures. Now look at it only 80 years later. Female pastors. Homosexuals being elected to church office (the office of elder, no less!) If you were to read through a discussion on this issue on the PB, you would find strong language. Language that would indeed offend many (if not all) involved in these wandering churches. Language that may even cause them to turn to more 'tolerant' denominations, or walk away from church completely.

    But even in the face of this unpalatable offensiveness, we are called to be true to Scripture. We do not cut Romans 1 out of the bible because it will offend, we preach it as a part of the gospel. It will offend. The world will hate it. There is no doubt that it will prick the consciences of those who practise these sins and cause them great anger towards the 'intolerant' and 'hypocritical' Christians that follow such writings.

    But I don't see where anyone is making fun of these "prophets". Calling a spade a spade? Maybe. But there is no sarcasm for the sake of a laugh. I do see (and feel) grief for these people. And pray that they would see the light and be saved from their depravity. But at the end of the day, we are called to be set apart from this and inform the brethren of the danger that stalks us as believers in this fallen world. And, as I am prone to do, my grief for them is overwhelmed by the anger I feel as I hear them blaspheme the name and office of my Savior. This must be condemned in the strongest terms. It may sound like a two-minute hate session, but I promise you that what you are reading is no less (and no more) than a Scripturally-sound discussion of the barbarians beating at the gates.

    I hope that going forward, you would be encouraged, not offended, by the actions and words of your brothers in Christ here on the PB, even in this very thread. I am thankful for these narrow-minded and over-rigid men and women every day. Blessings, brother.

    (sorry if this is :deadhorse: )
  8. pilgrim3970

    pilgrim3970 Puritan Board Freshman

    I grew up in Pentecostal/non-denom charismatic churches and this pretty well right on the money.
  9. raekwon

    raekwon Puritan Board Junior

    I watched all four parts of this "commissioning" service. Every time one of those jokers said "says/saith the LORD", I wanted to punch and/or throw something.
  10. Marrow Man

    Marrow Man Drunk with Powder

    Somebody's been watching one too many Japanese horror movies...
  11. D. Paul

    D. Paul Puritan Board Sophomore

    In my best Ernest Angley voice, "Be hhhhhhhhhhhee-uld!"
  12. DMcFadden

    DMcFadden Puritanboard Commissioner

    Ernest Angley?!? It has been a loooong time since I've heard that name. "Say baaaaaby. Say baaaaby."
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