ChristopherPaul
Puritan Board Senior
Good day! This is post number two for me; I introduced myself last week here. Thank you for the kind welcome.
Perhaps some of the body of Christ here can help me with some guidance and/or prayer.
For the sake of time (lack thereof) this post is a bit long. I apologize, please be patient, most of it is background.
My household is in the midst of some life changing transitions, one being a new church.
My wife and I have been faithfully attending and heavily involved in a "œSeeker Sensitive" / Emergent church for the past four years. We have developed some cherished relationships through our time there and I thank God always for His glorious providence.
For the last several months, perhaps almost a year now, I have been growing more and more frustrated with my church. Without getting into all the specifics, my understanding of the scriptures changed and thus was not in agreement with the church´s practice and overall missional approach (the gist: catering more to the wolves and goats, which could be unconverted sheep, but nevertheless the preference is not given to the sheep). Lord´s day after Lord´s day I would leave church discouraged and frustrated, feeling alone in my convictions and criticized for my studies. Some of the emergent-minded pastors cannot stand my "œstrict" and "œuptight" views on things. One of them told me something to the effect of, "œIt is all good man, all of life is theology, Jesus reprimanded the Pharisees for paying too much attention to the scriptures when in fact they missed God Himself. Do not tread the same road." So who do I go to for instruction? All the pastors had different views on things!
So my desires changed, I became covenantal and family oriented. My view of God changed with Him becoming much bigger and me becoming much smaller, but again I was alone. Each Lord´s day I struggled with pride and arrogance, judging the sermons and the performances, etc.
So my family finally made the change. We left our cherished home of four years and began attending a PCA church in our area.
The transition was not so easy. For those who are interested in more details, you could check out this thread where I posted updates regarding my frustration (it needs updated). Looking back I am ashamed, for I do believe I whined a bit.
With the start of the new after summer season and with us getting to know the pastors and the elders at the new church, I have become more and more excited about the transition.
However, my wife has not. She is very busy raising four children all under the age of five). She has no desire to study theological issues. She does not prefer to read, including the scriptures. I do not believe those desires are prerequisites for being a disciple. She does have ears and she can listen. She has a difficult time paying attention during the sermons at our new church. She detests the traditional style with organ-driven hymns. We attended a more intimate service held on Wednesday nights, which included a weekly dinner. During the fellowship dinner, I talked with one of the pastors (not the senior pastor). I had a great conversation with him, one I could never have at our old church "“ I was greatly encouraged. My wife did not meet anyone who seemed interested that she was there. During the service/bible study led by the senior pastor, we discussed God´s omniscience touching the topics of His providence and compatible determinism. I was floored by such a meaty study and was engaged the entire time being even more encouraged that finally we are amidst qualified teachers who are not afraid to honestly read and explain the scriptures.
In talking with my wife, she only felt stupid for not understanding what was being talked about. She gets very turned off by big terminology that makes her feel inferior. She is happy I found a church I like, but so far she is not happy (she understood the frustrations at the seeker church and wanted to make the transition with me). This past Lord´s day, the Senior pastor began guiding us through the book of Joshua. As an orator, the pastor is no John MacArthur, Michael Horton, or RC Sproul. He can be quite unemotional and monotone at times; however, as a shepherd goading a flock, he is an able teacher and knowledgeable. During the message I was engaged from start to finish. I left the service with a deeper knowledge of scriptures and with the desire to excel still more. I was greatly encouraged. I shook the pastor´s hand afterwards (we do not know each other very well, being that I am new) and simply said, thank you for teaching me God´s word.
Later in talking with my wife, she expressed that she had a hard time paying attention and was lost. She said that the main thing she got out of the sermon was that she now understands why the Seeker churches exist. She said if she was just checking out Christianity, she would never go back after attending such a service.
My gleam, my excitement, my renewed zeal for church, is immediately extinguished when talking with my frustrated spouse. We have different and perhaps opposing paradigms right now.
After almost two months of attending this church I am excited to declare this our home unless something comes up that negates all positive signs up to now. There are very few PCA and OPC churches to choose from in our area (many PCUSA, but I do not want to "œsettle" for a church that from the outset I will be frustrated with). There are no Reformed Baptist churches in the area. As far as Reformed churches go, they are few and far between. The good thing is, for me, yes I am frustrated with things such as worship style, infrequency of the Lord´s Supper, and a, from time to time, boring sermon, but overall I am very encouraged by this lonesome PCA church in the area that is only 10 minutes away from my house. I am encouraged mainly for her accountable teachings whether they be during Sunday school classes, weekday services, various Bible studies, and Sermons. The organization is a breath of fresh air for me.
However, this whole frustration from my wife is so disheartening. She is so turned off right now. She reminds me that I may take weeks or months to study certain issues in order to grasp them, but I then expect her to understand them after an evening conversation here and there.
Along with all this, now all of our friends from our old church are just hammering us with questions pertaining to why we are leaving. It is not a simple answer like, well the church moved the cross or painted the walls or whatever. It is deeper. We (or perhaps I) changed, not the church. So know I am faced with explaining what exactly changed that would make us leave our church. My wife´s friends ask her and she can only say, "œask my husband." People are saying stay and help us became a better church, but they do not understand what they are asking. I am at odds with the McLaren followers who happen to be the pastors. I am at odds with the entire movement and in the meantime me, my wife and children are being guided by teachers who believe and teach based on their own interpretations of scripture which is God knows what? There is no consistency or like mindedness in the church and if there was, that would be great, but I would still be in disagreement! So I am indeed overwhelmed right now. I am guilty of leaving my wife in the dust while doing my personal studies and now I am paying for it. I want my wife and I to be of like mind, and for once I trust those who may teach her and our children. But she seems to think in order to be where I am at and going, she must learn all these new "big words" and become a scholarly student, which she does not want to do, nor must, but this is her impression from this church. Ultimately she feels stupid and insecure when attending this new church.
Please pray for and guide this struggling disciple.
Grace,
Perhaps some of the body of Christ here can help me with some guidance and/or prayer.
For the sake of time (lack thereof) this post is a bit long. I apologize, please be patient, most of it is background.
My household is in the midst of some life changing transitions, one being a new church.
My wife and I have been faithfully attending and heavily involved in a "œSeeker Sensitive" / Emergent church for the past four years. We have developed some cherished relationships through our time there and I thank God always for His glorious providence.
For the last several months, perhaps almost a year now, I have been growing more and more frustrated with my church. Without getting into all the specifics, my understanding of the scriptures changed and thus was not in agreement with the church´s practice and overall missional approach (the gist: catering more to the wolves and goats, which could be unconverted sheep, but nevertheless the preference is not given to the sheep). Lord´s day after Lord´s day I would leave church discouraged and frustrated, feeling alone in my convictions and criticized for my studies. Some of the emergent-minded pastors cannot stand my "œstrict" and "œuptight" views on things. One of them told me something to the effect of, "œIt is all good man, all of life is theology, Jesus reprimanded the Pharisees for paying too much attention to the scriptures when in fact they missed God Himself. Do not tread the same road." So who do I go to for instruction? All the pastors had different views on things!
So my desires changed, I became covenantal and family oriented. My view of God changed with Him becoming much bigger and me becoming much smaller, but again I was alone. Each Lord´s day I struggled with pride and arrogance, judging the sermons and the performances, etc.
So my family finally made the change. We left our cherished home of four years and began attending a PCA church in our area.
The transition was not so easy. For those who are interested in more details, you could check out this thread where I posted updates regarding my frustration (it needs updated). Looking back I am ashamed, for I do believe I whined a bit.
With the start of the new after summer season and with us getting to know the pastors and the elders at the new church, I have become more and more excited about the transition.
However, my wife has not. She is very busy raising four children all under the age of five). She has no desire to study theological issues. She does not prefer to read, including the scriptures. I do not believe those desires are prerequisites for being a disciple. She does have ears and she can listen. She has a difficult time paying attention during the sermons at our new church. She detests the traditional style with organ-driven hymns. We attended a more intimate service held on Wednesday nights, which included a weekly dinner. During the fellowship dinner, I talked with one of the pastors (not the senior pastor). I had a great conversation with him, one I could never have at our old church "“ I was greatly encouraged. My wife did not meet anyone who seemed interested that she was there. During the service/bible study led by the senior pastor, we discussed God´s omniscience touching the topics of His providence and compatible determinism. I was floored by such a meaty study and was engaged the entire time being even more encouraged that finally we are amidst qualified teachers who are not afraid to honestly read and explain the scriptures.
In talking with my wife, she only felt stupid for not understanding what was being talked about. She gets very turned off by big terminology that makes her feel inferior. She is happy I found a church I like, but so far she is not happy (she understood the frustrations at the seeker church and wanted to make the transition with me). This past Lord´s day, the Senior pastor began guiding us through the book of Joshua. As an orator, the pastor is no John MacArthur, Michael Horton, or RC Sproul. He can be quite unemotional and monotone at times; however, as a shepherd goading a flock, he is an able teacher and knowledgeable. During the message I was engaged from start to finish. I left the service with a deeper knowledge of scriptures and with the desire to excel still more. I was greatly encouraged. I shook the pastor´s hand afterwards (we do not know each other very well, being that I am new) and simply said, thank you for teaching me God´s word.
Later in talking with my wife, she expressed that she had a hard time paying attention and was lost. She said that the main thing she got out of the sermon was that she now understands why the Seeker churches exist. She said if she was just checking out Christianity, she would never go back after attending such a service.
My gleam, my excitement, my renewed zeal for church, is immediately extinguished when talking with my frustrated spouse. We have different and perhaps opposing paradigms right now.
After almost two months of attending this church I am excited to declare this our home unless something comes up that negates all positive signs up to now. There are very few PCA and OPC churches to choose from in our area (many PCUSA, but I do not want to "œsettle" for a church that from the outset I will be frustrated with). There are no Reformed Baptist churches in the area. As far as Reformed churches go, they are few and far between. The good thing is, for me, yes I am frustrated with things such as worship style, infrequency of the Lord´s Supper, and a, from time to time, boring sermon, but overall I am very encouraged by this lonesome PCA church in the area that is only 10 minutes away from my house. I am encouraged mainly for her accountable teachings whether they be during Sunday school classes, weekday services, various Bible studies, and Sermons. The organization is a breath of fresh air for me.
However, this whole frustration from my wife is so disheartening. She is so turned off right now. She reminds me that I may take weeks or months to study certain issues in order to grasp them, but I then expect her to understand them after an evening conversation here and there.
Along with all this, now all of our friends from our old church are just hammering us with questions pertaining to why we are leaving. It is not a simple answer like, well the church moved the cross or painted the walls or whatever. It is deeper. We (or perhaps I) changed, not the church. So know I am faced with explaining what exactly changed that would make us leave our church. My wife´s friends ask her and she can only say, "œask my husband." People are saying stay and help us became a better church, but they do not understand what they are asking. I am at odds with the McLaren followers who happen to be the pastors. I am at odds with the entire movement and in the meantime me, my wife and children are being guided by teachers who believe and teach based on their own interpretations of scripture which is God knows what? There is no consistency or like mindedness in the church and if there was, that would be great, but I would still be in disagreement! So I am indeed overwhelmed right now. I am guilty of leaving my wife in the dust while doing my personal studies and now I am paying for it. I want my wife and I to be of like mind, and for once I trust those who may teach her and our children. But she seems to think in order to be where I am at and going, she must learn all these new "big words" and become a scholarly student, which she does not want to do, nor must, but this is her impression from this church. Ultimately she feels stupid and insecure when attending this new church.
Please pray for and guide this struggling disciple.
Grace,
But in that process I sincerely believe she's begun to see that the Church's preaching is far more in line with the themes of the Bible than she was used to. She criticised me originally for picking "Calvinist" books of the Bible, or books that focused heavily on sin, etc. But I can see that these complaints have gone away because when I read from all scripture it's all the same themes that are preached on in Church now. It's not the same themes she's heard preached on in the past. So after a year and a half, progress has been made, but there is still a ways to go. A major key has been the love people have shown her. If this hadn't have happened, then I would have been forced to find a compromise church and that would have been a tragedy. I thank God that He spared us that end. Don't know if this helps, but I hope it might.
