New City Catechism

[Jack K]

So please try to hear me say "catechism" without turning it into "confession."

Jack, the Confession of the Church is the Westminster Standards.

That includes the Westminster Shorter Catechism.

We do not mean only the Westminster Confession of Faith.

It includes the Westminster Larger and Shorter Catechism.

In the PCA, all three are part of the constitution of the Church, which can only be changed in the same manner.
(It takes 3/4 majority vote of General Assembly, then majorities in 3/4 of Presbyteries, then ratification by a subsequent General Assembly by 3/4 vote).
The reason the bar is high is because they are all the Confessional basis of unity of the Church.

When this is being done by a prominent PCA leader, a prominent PCA church, they know what is being done.

Um... I know all that about the Westminster Catechisms, of course. I still don't see how it matters. The fact that those are confessional documents does not mean every catechism is an attempt to supplant confessional standards. I just don't understand where you get that idea.

If you're implying that this IS someone's intent within the PCA, I think you you should say so plainly, in the proper church courts, if you can provide evidence of such intent (or refrain from making such accusations if you have no evidence but merely have personal suspicions).

As for me, if I recommend this new catechism to the fictional Baptist kid down the street it certainly won't be with the intent of supplanting PCA standards. I'm not thinking about the implications the catechism *might* have for people elsewhere who *might* want to use it badly. I'm just thinking I want to help that kid by introducing him to catechal instruction. That's the sort of guy I am. That's what's top of mind to me.

 

[Covenant Joel]

if we really want people to know and use our confessional standards like the WSC, then perhaps we ought to be putting into a helpful format like the New City Catechism has done.

But the Westminster Larger and Shorter Catechisms, for adults and children are already in helpful format.

That's what they have been for 400 years.

It takes some effort, like any discipline of the Christian life.

That's what we need to ask God for.

I don't think the "new" format is helpful for many reasons- including it has not been developed with theological deliberation by the denomination it would market to, but rather only a marketing strategy. It's incomplete as a teaching tool, selective and arbitrary in what it teaches. We don't know why the basic questions of the Christian life in the WSC and WLC are left out. Not handy to learn them?

The premise that handier formats will stimulate more earnest application by God's people to the means of grace has two aspects. Yes, technologically, but there is real danger when we are talking about handy substance.

We now have an explosion of Bible translations being marketed almost every year. The people are not reading the same thing, and curiously, the number of people (at least here in North America) seriously studying the Word of God is declining. Despite all the new "contextualized" formats, "contemporary" translations, abbreviations, "paraphrases," and marketing.
We have Bibles for fishermen (only)?, for women (only)?, one for "positive thinkers" (only?)

This "new" catechism is a hodge podge,
and the practical effect is not to increase the confessional unity of the church.

Any more than the "Amplified Bible" increased unity over the great doctrinal truths of Christianity.

Brother, I think you missed my entire point. I'm not defending the NCC or suggesting any change to the content of the WSC. I'm simply talking about developing an online tool/iPad app that does for the WSC what the NCC does for itself. That is, while there are WSC apps, there are none that combine commentary, Scripture, video, and prayer to go along with the actual text of the WSC. That's what I am talking about.

To simply say that the WSC is in the same format it has been in for 400 years misses the point. Keep the content, just use another medium to convey it, and add other resources to go along with it to help people get into it.

 

[Covenant Joel]

what if we created an online WSC tool like they've done with commentary, Scripture,

But this is not an WSC tool,
it's a random arbitrary collection from several sources done for marketing purposes, in a different version.

The Children's Catechism is a fine tool as an introduction to the WSC, which is its long standing purpose. It can even be used by more than the pre-fourth and fifth graders it was originally intended for.

I can see how you misunderstood that portion, but I was not saying that they created a WSC tool, but rather that a WSC tool could be created with a similar format to that which they have created. I.e., we can utilize newer technology with our confessional standards.

 

[Gavin]

Hi all,
I put together a catechism some time ago (took me a while) and posted it as a blog harmonizing the Geneva, Westminster and Heidelberg, but got almost no reply or comment. It also sought a middle way between Baptist and Covenant Baptist. You can check it here. I had hoped for some criticism that the right path might be maintaned.
A Reformed Catechism - Blogs - The PuritanBoard

 

[Scott1]

I'm not talking about confessions at all! Who ever said they plan to use this new catechism as a confession in the church? No one yet that I've heard of.

Um... I know all that about the Westminster Catechisms, of course. I still don't see how it matters.

Glad to see you clarified your earlier post, acknowledging that the Confession of the church includes the Westminster Shorter Catechism (with Scripture proofs).

It makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Scott1]

I'm not defending the NCC or suggesting any change to the content of the WSC. I'm simply talking about developing an online tool/iPad app that does for the WSC what the NCC does for itself.

And thanks for that clarification,
technology to get the WSC more available is not the same thing as changing its substance.