New International Greek Testament Commentary

[lukeh021471]

Is this a good commentary set. If it is which volumes are good and which volumes are questionable. I noticed that Dunn does Colossians and Philemon.

Dunn is a proponent of the NPP movement.

 

[greenbaggins]

All of NIGTC is important, and many of them are among the top commentaries on their respective book (Beale IS the best on Revelation, and Thiselton is near the top on 1 Corinthians). Knight on the Pastorals is outstanding, as is France on Mark. They're all worth having, though some (such as Dunn) need to be read more critically than others.

 

[crhoades]

Check out the Logos edition.
Site Search

It is great because since this is a heavily Greek oriented commentary set, it is hyperlinked to the BDAG and everything else imaginable.

 

[DMcFadden]

Check out the Logos edition.
Site Search

It is great because since this is a heavily Greek oriented commentary set, it is hyperlinked to the BDAG and everything else imaginable.

I affirm ALL of Lane's comments but especially want to highlight the commendation of Libronix by Chris Rhoades. For those not wedded to paper, they offer the most efficient way to do research. And, usually at a substantial savings. The 40 volumes of Van Til, for instance, would cost you $699 in book form; $149.95 in electronic format.

 

[crhoades]

Check out the Logos edition.
Site Search

It is great because since this is a heavily Greek oriented commentary set, it is hyperlinked to the BDAG and everything else imaginable.

I affirm ALL of Lane's comments but especially want to highlight the commendation of Libronix by Chris Rhoades. For those not wedded to paper, they offer the most efficient way to do research. And, usually at a substantial savings. The 40 volumes of Van Til, for instance, would cost you $699 in book form; $149.95 in electronic format.

$80 actually
http://www.puritanboard.com/f29/works-van-til-updated-logos-libronix-format-31557/#post388380

 

[DavidGGraves]

I dislike Logos/Libronix's business practices so refuse to purchase any of their products although it would be cheaper in many instances.

 

[crhoades]

I dislike Logos/Libronix's business practices so refuse to purchase any of their products although it would be cheaper in many instances.

I'll bite.

 

[DMcFadden]

I'd also be interested in David's negative experience with Logos. With something like 3,800 unlocks, I'm a VERY satisfied customer and user. And, yes, the 12 volumes of the NIGTC are among the unlocks on my computer.

 

[mshingler]

My experience with Logos is somewhat mixed. I like the software, but am often frustrated with prices. I can usually get the print versions of books I want much cheaper than the Logos version.

 

[DMcFadden]

My experience with Logos is somewhat mixed. I like the software, but am often frustrated with prices. I can usually get the print versions of books I want much cheaper than the Logos version.

Where? If you buy the pre-pubs, you can get great deals. Barth's Church Dogmatics, for instance, retails for $840. My pre-pub discount was $299. The Goold edition of John Owen’s works in English with the original Latin retails for $500. My pre-pub was only $225. The 2nd ed. of Erickson's Christian Theology costs $50 usually. Logos has it for $20. Plus, at Christmas every year, they put out huge collections of hundreds of books for about $1.33 a volume.

Plus, you can sometimes get great deals from third parties such as Rejoice Software. Almost everything R.C. Sproul ever wrote for $35, complete works of Luther (55 vols.) for about $170, and the Word Biblical Commentary on sale at times around $400-$500 . . . sounds like pretty good deals to me.

 

[mshingler]

Couple examples: Beale's Commentary on Revelation at Logos - $85; Amazon.com - $50.40
Word Commentaries average $40 each at Logos and can get for $25 or $30 in print.

I know a lot of stuff at Logos is cheap if you buy the whole set, but I usually don't want and can't afford a whole set of commentaries or other works. I'm usually looking for some specific book.
Also, their public domain works are often much more - like works of Pink or Owen or Spurgeon. I find Ages cheaper for a lot of those Classic works. I'm not sure if it's the technology or what.

 

[Casey]

Some volumes are less expensive, some are more. One practical concern I have with a digital library is that technology changes. If Libronix/Logos as a company ceases to exist, then after 5-10 years, so might your ability to run the software. Eventually every book you purchased and unlocked will become inaccessible. A physical book will never become technologically obsolete and can be easily passed on to posterity. Ten years ago Windows 98 was important, the rage, brand new; now it's obsolete and won't work on new hardware. When I buy an expensive reference work, I want it to be accessible to me the rest of my life.

 

[Wannabee]

There's something that needs to be understood here. Getting the text for the electronic editions is a piece of cake. A monkey can do it. But embedding the TAGS is another matter entirely. Each link has to be set up accordingly. Notice how it (usually) links so well with other resources, such as BDAG, TWOT, TDNT, Greek and Hebrew texts, any referenced work, etc. The labor that goes into this is rather intense. So, don't begrudge these guys for trying to make a buck off of public domain books. There is a lot of research, training, skill and work that goes into these projects.
And they're constantly improving on them. I remember the Hebrew update a few years ago. It was amazing. Click on Tools-Update often. You'll be pleased with the results.
And they do publish liberal works. They're a business. I've spoken with Dale, the VP, about this. They want to make anything that a scholar may want to study as available as they can, regardless of the motives of the student. They can either buy it from Zondervan or they can get it from Logos. And there are many works (Prayer by Rosscup for example) that are not available anywhere else.
And whenever you find a typo or bad link click on Help - Report Typo. It helps them with their updates.

 

[mshingler]

When I consider getting a title through Logos/Libronix, one of the things I consider is whether it will truly be helpful to have it with the searchability, etc. that comes with the Libronix Library. In some cases, I think it's definitely worth the extra money (and I know it's not always more money) to have the capabilities of Libronix. On the other hand, there are some books that I really don't care if I have them in print or on my computer. Then, I'm just looking at price.

 

[Archlute]

NIGTC, as a whole, is the best modern series of commentaries dealing with the Greek (although you may find individual volumes of the Hermeneia series to be their equal - such as the outstanding commentary on Galatians by Betz, and his huge work of nearly 700pp. on the Sermon on the Mount).

I agree with Lane in the main, although I would add that Philippians by O'Brien is another great volume, along with those by France, Thiselton, and Beale already mentioned. I personally found Marshall on Luke, and Davids on James to be rather mediocre, as well as being unconvinced with some of his reconstruction of the background of James' epistle. You should also read Wanamaker on 1 & 2 Thessalonians with a critical eye regarding NPP, as it's influence is readily detected in some of his comments, especially in the discussion of what he labels as Paul's exoridum of 1 Thess. 1:2-10.

 

[DMcFadden]

Some volumes are less expensive, some are more. One practical concern I have with a digital library is that technology changes. If Libronix/Logos as a company ceases to exist, then after 5-10 years, so might your ability to run the software. Eventually every book you purchased and unlocked will become inaccessible. A physical book will never become technologically obsolete and can be easily passed on to posterity. Ten years ago Windows 98 was important, the rage, brand new; now it's obsolete and won't work on new hardware. When I buy an expensive reference work, I want it to be accessible to me the rest of my life.

You raise some great points. It is a calculated risk. I also use Ages due to the price (along with WordSearch, Biblesoft, and Pradis). When I left the pastorate for my current retirement home ministry, my wife put extreme pressure on me to disgorge myself of books. We dumped 2,500 volumes (including all of my Hermeneia, most of my Anchor, and Steinsalz Talmud volumes). That left me with only 2,500 or so. But, with digital books, my computer library is up to around 8,000 books. My bet is that whatever replaces Logos will be able to convert them.

 

[lukeh021471]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I currently have all of the word bible commentary in libronix. The only trouble is with computer form is it strains my eyes after a while. I prefer the book form. But I do understand the advantages with electronic form since it can be integrated into other valuable electronic resources. I have Bibleworks and the full BDAG and I love it. It is a great help in my second year greek class.
Luke

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Some volumes are less expensive, some are more. One practical concern I have with a digital library is that technology changes. If Libronix/Logos as a company ceases to exist, then after 5-10 years, so might your ability to run the software. Eventually every book you purchased and unlocked will become inaccessible. A physical book will never become technologically obsolete and can be easily passed on to posterity. Ten years ago Windows 98 was important, the rage, brand new; now it's obsolete and won't work on new hardware. When I buy an expensive reference work, I want it to be accessible to me the rest of my life.

Yes... It's all great stuff until the power goes out....
We shouldn't be so dependant upon electrons. It's not easy though today.

 

[Casey]

Yes... It's all great stuff until the power goes out....
We shouldn't be so dependant upon electrons. It's not easy though today.

I have BibleWorks with just two modules: HALOT and BDAG. I'm not one who's against technology, don't get me wrong. I just decided that was a wise decision for me. The important exegetical works that I need to have searchable I've got with BWs. All the rest are on my shelves. I don't mind getting out of my chair and looking up something in TDNT, in a commentary, Bible dictionary, atlas, whatever. What attracts me to Logos (I don't have it, btw) is the possibility of having all my library in one easy and accessible place (sometimes even with pleasant discounts to get large sets of volumes). But in my mind, the cons outweigh the pros. So I've stuck primarily to hardcopies, and I've even gotten some of my books at decent prices from friends converting to digital libraries! (Not to mention I like my eyeballs )

 

[greenbaggins]

Some volumes are less expensive, some are more. One practical concern I have with a digital library is that technology changes. If Libronix/Logos as a company ceases to exist, then after 5-10 years, so might your ability to run the software. Eventually every book you purchased and unlocked will become inaccessible. A physical book will never become technologically obsolete and can be easily passed on to posterity. Ten years ago Windows 98 was important, the rage, brand new; now it's obsolete and won't work on new hardware. When I buy an expensive reference work, I want it to be accessible to me the rest of my life.

Yes... It's all great stuff until the power goes out....
We shouldn't be so dependant upon electrons. It's not easy though today.

Plus, I get all that great exercise moving them!

 

[DMcFadden]

My promise to my wife is to unload the hardback as soon as I obtain it in digital. There are a few exceptions (Institutes, Berkhof, Grudem), just in case persecution, new technology, or terrorism (EMP) wipes out my computerized library.

Back to the thread, boys, the NIGNTC is GREAT whether you have it in hard copy or digital. Beale IS the best on Revelation anyhow.

 

[Poimen]

We shouldn't be so dependant upon electrons. It's not easy though today.

Or paper... what about fires, earthquakes, floods, broken water pipes, vandalism, theft?

Or maple syrup excess from your pancakes randomly spilling onto your prized, signed copy of "How Canada Can Defeat America - But Don't Tell Anybody about It or Else I Will Kidnap and Torture You" by Kiefer Sutherland

I would say: if you can afford it, get both. If not, I would still go with paper knowing that could be lost someday too.

On the other hand, you are more likely to lose an electronic version of the book than the book itself.

 

[DavidGGraves]

OK about their business practices:

LOGOS is like Microsoft in how it is able to gobble up its competition. It attempts to weasel into beta testing of its competitors so that it can backwards engineer new features and bring them to the market ahead of the others since they have the staff, while for example BibleWorks is a small staff. So in a business model they are doing it the best to succeed but they do it in a way that crushes the competition. That is what I was getting at with my comment. I have particulars, but as it is I feel like I am gossiping with this, and it took me three times to post the original post and almost wish I hadn't.

I am highly biased and love BibleWorks. I have been using it and teaching it in seminary classes for @ 8 years now. Moreover, while I like the searchability of electronic format I prefer hard copy. As an example after I look up something in the John Owen Ages Library, I then switch to the hard copy.

 

[DMcFadden]

Yikes! Thanks, David for your observations. The ethics issues concern me. That will certainly give me something new to think about in the future.

From a usage standpoint, I can see why a seminary prof would prefer Bibleworks. However, can you see why someone who is preaching and wants quick access to a wider library would prefer Logos?

My copies of Marshall, Davids, Knight, et. al. went pretty quickly when they came out in electronic version. The NIGNTC is a treasure to have in either format. Dunn would not be my choice, however, for a commentator due to his NPP ideas. However, my library has a relative paucity of more recent technnical commentaries on Colossians. Hendriksen and O’Brien stand out amid a host of more pastoral works (e.g., MacArthur, Melick) or older volumes (e.g. Lightfoot). So, Dunn it is.

 

[DavidGGraves]

I understand and prefer the older commentaries such as Owen's on Hebrews. Most of the modern technical commentaries to quote my Greek professor, "I doubt that their shadow has darkened the inside of a church in a long time." They generally are asking questions that the text is not addressing or answering from an improper perspective. As I was reading Vos' Eschatology of the Old Testament this morning dealing with Wellhausen and Gunkel when he states they may give different answers but the method is the same. It is funny how the OT prophets were disciples of Schleirmacher ain't it?

BTW I am not a prof though, I was just a TA at TEDS for a number of years and BibleWorks was one of my tricks.