Nicodemus
- Thread starter Steve Ski
- Start date
Elias_Amare
Puritan Board Freshman
Well, we can't say No since Jesus is reproving Nicodemus for "Knowest not these things" since Nicodemus was “man of the Pharisees","a ruler of the Jews:” also “Art thou a master of Israel" (The teacher of Israel) definite article “the” indicates that Nicodemus was a renowned master (teacher) in the nation of Israel.
I believe for the same thing Jesus Christ had been speaking of, are expressed by circumcision of the heart, Comparable to dry bones. (Deut 10:16, Jer 4:4 Ezek 37:1-7, Ezekiel 36:26-27, Psa 51:10, Ezek 11:19)
I believe for the same thing Jesus Christ had been speaking of, are expressed by circumcision of the heart, Comparable to dry bones. (Deut 10:16, Jer 4:4 Ezek 37:1-7, Ezekiel 36:26-27, Psa 51:10, Ezek 11:19)
Andres
Puritan Board Doctor
Ezekiel 36
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
MyCrows
Puritan Board Sophomore
I would say so. Even though the administration that Nicodemus was laboring under was that of the law, nevertheless it was part of the COG. It was subservient to the COG
The teachers of his day had turned away from seeking God in his grace, and rather desired to frame up their own righteousness.
Rather than working their way up to God, they should have turned to him in dependence, seeking that good work to be done to them that only he, in his grace, could do. They needed new hearts, not more of their own filthy rags.
Modern readers of the Bible don't pick up on the plural -- "Ye" must be born again. Although there is an individual element the Jewish teachers would have been expected to understand that there was to be a rebirth of the nation with the coming of Messiah. The valley of dry bones in Ezekiel is one of many passages which express the wholesale renewal of the nation.
Corey Powell
Puritan Board Freshman
This is interesting; it makes sense to me, but the only other person I've heard the argument for a corporate "new birth" was an FV guy using it to justify conflating regeneration with covenant membership through baptism.
What implications does this have on our understanding of new birth, at least based on this passage? And what commentators could you point to that share this view?
The passage seems to mostly use the singular pronous "tis" and then only in verses 7 he says "humas (y'all) must be born from above"
"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." That gives water significance, but it is connected with the Spirit of renewal, and it is individual -- someone, a certain person. This should answer the FV distortion, which essentially boils down to the Romanist view.
I don't think it changes anything so far as individual soteriology is concerned. It only adds the redemptive-historical significance as we move into the New Testament. When Jesus baptises the apostles in the Spirit on the day of Pentecost the "nation" of Israel is left out in the cold. This has important ramifications for understanding the membership of the church in the New Testament. 1 Cor. 12:13.
Elias_Amare
Puritan Board Freshman
If I understand you well, you're asking if the teacher of Israel understood that God's imperatives are always based on God's indicatives? or at least know the "indicative/imperative" structure of God's commands? I tend to think that
"Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:" Exo 19:4-5
" Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words. Moses commanded us a law, even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob." Deu 33:3-5
"Happy art thou, O Israel: who is like unto thee, O people saved by the Lord, the shield of thy help, and who is the sword of thy excellency! and thine enemies shall be found liars unto thee; and thou shalt tread upon their high places." Deu 33:29
"I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness." Mal 1:2-3
Amen, and the big indicative in Exodus 20:2 preceding the decalogue.