NIP - Nursing in Public

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LadyFlynt

Puritan Board Doctor
This did call for it's own thread. I'm placing this in the Family Forum as it's not just a woman's issue. Dad's should be permitted to weigh in. Also, there was a statement about feminism made in the other thread...(1) this is NOT a feminist issue, in fact, there are even feminists that are anti-breastfeeding and anti-NIP. There are liberals on both sides of the issue as well as conservatives. (2) please don't equate me with a feminist. Anyone on this board that knows me, knows that I am about as far from a feminist as you get.


Cont'd:

I'm not saying blankets are bad. I'm saying they should not be required. Just as much as some women feel more comfortable or feel the need to keep a blanket handy for nursing, there are also women for whom a blanket is uncomfortable or more of a hassle (I'm one of these latter women, but have had friends that varied on the issue, but agreed that it should be THEIR personal decision, not that of another).

From studying history, I would say that most women did not feel the need to cover themselves. Granted there were those that may have with a shawl (something they were already wearing) and that it was most likely due more to assisting their child to sleep or from distractions or even to keep them warmer (shawls used to be as large enough to double as a blanket if need me...the Welsh Nursing Shawl is an example 6ft x 6ft and folded in half triangularly).

This need to "hide away" came in Victorian era of the middle to upper classes (America) where a woman wouldn't rarely be seen if she was showing in her pregnancy. The mennonites carry some of this extremism in a book on the family that not only insists that a woman leave the room to nurse, but also that children should not be present when changing a babe's diapers.

Fast forward to the World Wars and the Depression. There are photos online (trying to refind them) that show women nursing. These were taken by photographers that were documenting these three events and the daily lives of people during. Much more breast is exposed than we are used to seeing during nursing in present day. Women didn't lift their blouses, they undid them from the top down (one picture shows a woman nursing in a train station). Others also wore traditional clothing and appropriate underpinnings that only permitted them to actually "pull out their breast" from the top and nurse. This was seen as feeding a child. Bottles weren't always available, pumps were unheard of, and formula was for the upper classes.
 
Are you asking for opinions on nursing in public?

My wife always carried her cover/blanket with her whenever we were away from home. She also made every attempt to nurse in private so that she did not have to use it as she and I were both slightly uncomfortable with it.

I saw a woman in public breastfeeding a few months back and I was absolutely shocked. I thought it was more than inappropriate. (In my humble opinion) That's what I think anyway.
 
I was in my young twenties when several of the young men in my Reformed Baptist church would talk about it, and we were all against doing it without blankets because the hormone surge, especially when a woman would do it in church, made it impossible for us to concentrate on the sermon. 10 years in Africa and PNG helped a little, because I'd see bare breasts all the time, but there's something about it being normally hidden in Western and even most Asian cultures that still keeps it hard not to want to watch for the wrong reasons even at my age.

So, I always made sure my wife did it with a blanket, as was indeed her feelings as well.

So there! Let's hear from some men made of sterner stuff.
 
There are some women who can nurse without a blanket, and no one has a clue. My "second mom" (very good friend of the family) was one. She would often be nursing, without a blanket, and there would be many people around who did not have a clue...I was one of them, and didn't know it until years later when I was told by my mom.

I think it is a matter of what the woman is able to do, and is comfortable with.
 
I'm glad when I see it in the West because it means that the West is moving from their fascination with the bottle and giving their kids a healthier life.
 
I always covered and I would go to a restroom or somewhere else if I were out in public... I would even cover if I were home and there was a chance that someone other than my husband would come in... and I would keep a large burp rag incase my son got overly interested in what I was doing with the younger son... but that is just me. I get really uncomfortable if I see a woman brestfeeding in public... it's a special time between mother and child...

just a side note.. I tripped over and almost fell when I saw a lady breastfeeding in the open at a mall.
 
I was in the middle of editing my post, sorry. Also, my husband is made of sterner stuff and he would take issue with anyone demanding I use a blanket (as he knows I would show more in the struggle to keep it on) or leaving the room (as it is discrimination and his wife and child should be permitted to hear the word preached).

Btw, I have been requested to remove myself to a far room of a church full of gossiping women and noisy children even when I have been covered and in a place where there were no people other than the one deacon that happened to walk by and notice me (and my back was to him). I do currently remove myself from the sanctuary, but only due to a noisy nurser, and I nurse wherever the sermon is being broadcasted and it is quietest. Many times, this has been in the foyer.
 
Regardless of how breast feeding should be viewed, we have to remember that we are in a sex-crazed culture that will be looking at your for the wrong reasons. We also have to remember our brothers in Christ who might consider it a major stumbling block in their thoughts (as mentioned above). Breasts in our culture are highly sexualized objects, and I'm sure it would be difficult for most men to keep their thoughts clean. (And on a personal note, I can't imagine sitting in the mall openly breastfeeding and having my pastor or an elder walk by and watch me. Eeeeeew!)

I see no problem with breast feeding in public if you are covered.
 
As I stated in the other thread, I think that the root of this phobia over NIP is a result of our culture being removed from reality. It is the same root that will cause someone to rail against the slaughter of steers while enjoying a steak.
 
I'm glad when I see it in the West because it means that the West is moving from their fascination with the bottle and giving their kids a healthier life.

I was bottle fed, and never had any health troubles. My immune system is just fine, and I RARELY get sick. Not arguing, just saying that that notion doesn't always bear true. I know some sickly kids who were breastfed.
 
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I always covered and I would go to a restroom or somewhere else if I were out in public... I would even cover if I were home and there was a chance that someone other than my husband would come in... and I would keep a large burp rag incase my son got overly interested in what I was doing with the younger son... but that is just me. I get really uncomfortable if I see a woman brestfeeding in public... it's a special time between mother and child...

So for a child that needs to feed often and other amenities are not available (freezing cold/overly hot car and filthy bathrooms that usually have no place to sit do not count), should the mother simply not go out with her child till the child is beyond nursing? (for some, this is longer than 6mos).

-----Added 12/10/2008 at 10:30:49 EST-----

Regardless of how breast feeding should be viewed, we have to remember that we are in a sex-crazed culture that will be looking at your for the wrong reasons. We also have to remember our brothers in Christ who might consider it a major stumbling block in their thoughts (as mentioned above). Breasts in our culture are highly sexualized objects, and I'm sure it would be difficult for most men to keep their thoughts clean. (And on a personal note, I can't imagine sitting in the mall openly breastfeeding and having my pastor or an elder walk by and watch me. Eeeeeew!)

I see no problem with breast feeding in public if you are covered.

How should we respond to those that are trying to sexualise breastfeeding (or compare it to urination)? Should we ban it from public or should we recognise it for what it is and normalise it back into our culture?
 
The health benefits of breastfeeding are such that there should be public/social incentives to encourage this healthful behavior...or at least the removal of obstacles to mothers trying to do the best thing for their children in a crowded world where it is hard to always escape "public space."
 
I'm glad when I see it in the West because it means that the West is moving from their fascination with the bottle and giving their kids a healthier life.

I was bottle fed, and never had any health troubles. My immune system is just fine, and I RARELY get sick. Not arguing, just saying that that notion doesn't always bare true. I know some sickly kids who were breastfed.

There are always exceptions. Some children are sickly and their nursing may have benefited them from worse situations. Others are healthy no matter what. :)
 
How should we respond to those that are trying to sexualise breastfeeding (or compare it to urination)? Should we ban it from public or should we recognise it for what it is and normalise it back into our culture?
I don't think we should ban it from public nor do I think we should normalize it either... I think that malls (ours here does) have a "quiet room" that is like a livingroom where mothers can go... but if you can't go anywhere, yes you should at least drape a light cloth over you and baby....you don't want some guy looking at you with dirty thoughts do you??
 
I don't think we should ban it from public nor do I think we should normalize it either... I think that malls (ours here does) have a "quiet room" that is like a livingroom where mothers can go... but if you can't go anywhere, yes you should at least drape a light cloth over you and baby....you don't want some guy looking at you with dirty thoughts do you??

I'm not a mall person to start with. Most stores do not have such facilities. Even still, I typically have 7 children with me of both genders and there is no way I'm leaving any of them out of my sight while I go feed a babe. (because the idea would be that my eldest boy might have dirty thoughts if he was in a room with nursing mothers, right?). And typically a man that is going to have dirty thoughts because you are nursing, will have them even if you weren't nursing and just walk by him in the mall...

nursing does not equal sexual innuendo.

I do find it sad that people think nursing a babe should not be a normal thing. So the rest of the world, even Christian eras and cultures were wrong to nurse their babes as they did and where they were?
 
I was bottle fed, and never had any health troubles. My immune system is just fine, and I RARELY get sick. Not arguing, just saying that that notion doesn't always bare true. I know some sickly kids who were breastfed.

That is no empirical proof. It has been scientifically and statistically been proven that breastfeeding is, in general, more beneficial to mother and child. Effects include a generally better resistance due to copying of the mother's antigens, notable fewer allergic reactions to substances foreign to the body, a possible boost in intelligence for the child, as well as being beneficial to the mother by helping her shed some pounds. For more information, breastfeeding studies - Google Search.

That these and more positive effects exist should not look strange to us; man designed formula, but who designed mothers?

How should we respond to those that are trying to sexualise breastfeeding (or compare it to urination)? Should we ban it from public or should we recognise it for what it is and normalise it back into our culture?

I may not be a father, but I think LadyFlint has a point here. Our society is clearly in error in many places. That means we should not comply to the error, but seek to abolish it. Our society, for example, views corporal punishment of any form or shape as brutal behavior (over here in The Netherlands a law was passed a few years ago forbidding a 'correcting slap'!). Does that mean Christian parents need to give in and not punish children? Heaven forbid! Same thing for breastfeeding, is it not?

Just my :2cents:.
 
I have no problem with breastfeeding in public as long as you are covered.

Humm? I should talk to my wife about this since we are having a baby in May. :)
 
Dad's should be permitted to weigh in.

I agree with others that measures should be taken for modesty (blanket, etc.).

However, nursing schedules, whether regular or irregular, rarely coincide with the inflexible timeline of public life. My wife's first preference isn't to nurse a baby in church or in a public setting. Not for moral reasons, but for very practical reasons, she would rather be at home in a quiet, private room. However, public feeding is sort of forced on her when the baby lets the whole world know that it is time to eat.

Our church family was very accepting and understanding with this issue for both of our children, and I think everybody was quite relieved when we got the kid to stop hollering. Nobody ever gave us a problem in other public settings either; I think many people are surprised simply because of the novelty of it.
 
Lady, please don't think that I am saying you shouldn't breastfeed in public at all, just if you HAVE TO you should cover with a blanket
 
I have no problem with breastfeeding in public as long as you are covered.

Humm? I should talk to my wife about this since we are having a baby in May. :)

What do you mean by covered? If a woman is sitting there nursing a child and nothing is showing is that covered? Or are you speaking of an extra 'cover' so you can't see the babe either?
 
I have no problem with breastfeeding in public as long as you are covered.

Humm? I should talk to my wife about this since we are having a baby in May. :)
Congrats!!!!!! my son was born in May... he's b-day is really cool (I think anyways)5-5-05
Boy? Girl? do you know yet? how fun!
 
I have no problem with breastfeeding in public as long as you are covered.

Humm? I should talk to my wife about this since we are having a baby in May. :)
Congrats!!!!!! my son was born in May... he's b-day is really cool (I think anyways)5-5-05
Boy? Girl? do you know yet? how fun!

Lord-willing we will know at the end of the month if it is a boy or girl. Thanks.

I have no problem with breastfeeding in public as long as you are covered.

Humm? I should talk to my wife about this since we are having a baby in May. :)

What do you mean by covered? If a woman is sitting there nursing a child and nothing is showing is that covered? Or are you speaking of an extra 'cover' so you can't see the babe either?

Covered, no breast showing. For modesty purposes. And to aid weaker brethren who easily stumble.
 
I think you can breastfeed in public. I think some mothers do not need a blanket b/c they and their babies are able to "co-operate" so that mommy won't be exposed.
BUT, I think if you aren't one of those mothers, you will need a blanket or to step away from the public.
I have nursed in all kinds of places (Panera Bread, for example) but I was not exposed but rather hidden by a blanket. Sometimes I have my baby in a sling that hides everything, and I can nurse thusly without a blanket, but usually I go into another room or I use a blanket.

I think nursing in public is great--it does, as you say, help to normalize it. I do not think breasts need to be normalized, though, so my vote is they should be hidden.
 
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Folks, not every child will nurse with a blanket or shawl over it. It is just a reality of life. Ladies, the form of a woman can send many men over the edge sexually. I'm not speaking of form fitting spandex or snug blue jeans. I know men who will be aroused at the sight of a woman in a dress with a gathered waist. Or, other men who practically drool over the sight of women dressed in the modest dresses of the 1940's. Does that mean that since wearing these obviously (I hope) decent clothes cause some men, and a growing number I might add, to be aroused then we need to move to the coverage of the female figure similar to the Arabs?
 
Don't get me wrong, Jamal. I defend your right to do it. Anywhere. All I meant is that a nice looking woman who does it in front of most men will without a blanket will cause them to lust, whether it should or it shouldn't. And as far as breasts being sexualized, there's great truth to that. But reading the Song of Solomon I don't think anyone would deny that at least some of that sexual attraction is hard wired into us men.
 
Lady, please don't think that I am saying you shouldn't breastfeed in public at all, just if you HAVE TO you should cover with a blanket

I think some of my posts haven't been very clear though. *I* cannot nurse with a blanket and be modest. If it is hot out, I will not smother my child. My children usually cannot tolerate a blanket (I've only had one that did #6) and will keep knocking it down with their waving arms...particularly difficult when managing other toddlers and young children at the same time. And thus, I am more modest without a blanket than with. Some are more modest with a blanket and some without. Nursing in public does not mean that your breast is viewable :) (for some yes, because of child playing around or because of lack of practice...other reasons why it should not be dictated either way).
 
Folks, not every child will nurse with a blanket or shawl over it. It is just a reality of life. Ladies, the form of a woman can send many men over the edge sexually. I'm not speaking of form fitting spandex or snug blue jeans. I know men who will be aroused at the sight of a woman in a dress with a gathered waist. Or, other men who practically drool over the sight of women dressed in the modest dresses of the 1940's. Does that mean that since wearing these obviously (I hope) decent clothes cause some men, and a growing number I might add, to be aroused then we need to move to the coverage of the female figure similar to the Arabs?

Not at all.... however we know that God made breasts to be an enjoyable sight (and to feed) so we should not let everyone or anyone who is not our husband or a doctor see our goodies.
 
I think it's sweet and wonderful to see a mother nursing in public. I haven't always felt so (funny how motherhood changes you!)

Nursing mothers should make every effort, in my opinion, to not cause a brother to stumble. Likewise, Christians should make every effort to not judge those who need to nurse in public. It's all about charity.

I think it's altogether appropriate to cover up for your brother's sake, while nursing in public, as much as possible. But, men ought not to be scandalized should the covering slip or if it unavailable. We should all just do our best in these situations, showing charity, and not judging.
 
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