Non Ordained Theologians

Discussion in 'Puritan Literature' started by Scott Bushey, Mar 6, 2018.

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  1. Ben Zartman

    Ben Zartman Puritan Board Sophomore

    Since baptism is administered by fallible men, they do not always infallibly judge of the truthfulness of the subject's confession. Many are baptized whose profession is spurious, but if elders waited for absolute judgment-day certainty, they'd never baptize anyone. So they operate to the best of their judgment, leaving omniscience to God. Ideally, only those who truly are regenerate should seek baptism, but we do not live in an ideal world. We operate by the light we have now: God will judge righteously at the great assize.
    As for the elect children dying in infancy thing, RBs believe that God saves them without a baptism at all! Just like I'm sure you believe that an elect child dying in the womb is regenerated even though his little corpse never gets baptized.
     
  2. kainos01

    kainos01 Puritan Board Senior

    Historically, that is doubtless true. However, in the world in which we live (not that of the Puritans), the terms do seem to be more divided according to tradition. I cannot speak for Reformed Baptists (having migrated from broadly evangelical Baptist to Presbyterian), but in the Baptist circles with which I was/am familiar, sacramental language will typically arouse charges of Catholicism (at best!).
     
  3. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    So, u would admit then that you baptize upon presumption? The reason I ask is because most credo's only admit this fact when pressed; most say that they only place the sign upon 'true believers', which is ultimately flawed.
     
  4. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    Not really presumption.

    The test is objective but not infallible: "Those who actually do profess repentance towards God, faith in, and obedience to, our Lord Jesus...." (LBCF chp 29, para 2)

    None of the RBs I know would presume that a profession of faith is dispositive of one's true standing before God
     
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  5. Ask Mr. Religion

    Ask Mr. Religion Flatly Unflappable

    Without intending to derail the OP discussion, this crossed my desk this evening:

    "In the summer of 2001 pastors Mark Dever (SBC) and David Coffin (PCA) held a public conversation at Capitol Hill Baptist Church on baptism.

    They came up with the following 17 statements that both could affirm."

    17 Statements that a Paedobaptist and a Credobaptist Can Both Affirm

    Start a new thread here if you want to take issue or discuss the item.
     
  6. Ben Zartman

    Ben Zartman Puritan Board Sophomore

    What Victor said above.
     
  7. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    The problem that many Baptists have regarding this important issue is that they were raised up and instructed that both the Communion and the water Baptism were totally symbolic in nature, so is hard for Baptist to attach any significant spiritual grace activity happening while partaking of the 2 sacraments.
     
  8. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Yes, as Baptists such as myself were taught that both Ordinances are totally and only symbolic in nature, so when Presbyterians would give to them some spiritual grace being active in some sense, that would indeed cause many Baptists to think of items such as infant regeneration and some type of Eucharist going on here.
     
  9. Edward

    Edward Puritan Board Doctor

    :butbutbut:

    I was told that thinking Baptists taught that was

     
  10. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    My understanding is that Reformed Baptists would see the spiritual presence of Jesus with us at the Communion, but view water baptism in a different way still than Presbyterians do.
     
  11. Ben Zartman

    Ben Zartman Puritan Board Sophomore

    David, here's the LBCF on this:
    "Worthy receivers, outwardly partaking of the visible elements in this ordinance, do then also inwardly by faith, really and indeed, yet not carnally and corporately, but spiritually receive and feed upon Christ crucified and all the benefits of His death; the body and blood of Christ being then not corporally or carnally, but spiritually present to the faith of believers in that ordinance, as the elements themselves are to their outward senses." LBCF 30:7
     
  12. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    WCF:

    VII. Worthy receivers, outwardly partaking of the visible elements in this sacrament, do then also inwardly by faith, really and indeed, yet not carnally and corporally, but spiritually, receive and feed upon Christ crucified, and all benefits of his death: the body and blood of Christ being then not corporally or carnally in, with, or under the bread and wine; yet as really, but spiritually, present to the faith of believers in that ordinance, as the elements themselves are to their outward senses.
     
  13. py3ak

    py3ak They're stalling and plotting against me Staff Member

    WLC

    Q. 162. What is a sacrament?

    A. A sacrament is an holy ordinance instituted by Christ in his church, to signify, seal, and exhibit unto those that are within the covenant of grace, the benefits of his mediation; to strengthen and increase their faith, and all other graces; to oblige them to obedience; to testify and cherish their love and communion one with another; and to distinguish them from those that are without.
     
  14. Harley

    Harley Puritan Board Sophomore

    I’m sorry to re-rail the thread, but Biblically speaking is there room for a non-elder to teach or publish under the oversight of elders?
     
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  15. Timmay

    Timmay Puritan Board Freshman

    I’d like to hear about this too.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Yes, there would indeed be the presense of the Lord Jesus in a spiritual sense involved while partaking of the Communion, its additional grace, but not saving grace in this process.
    And also would be clearly different then the traditional Baptist view that tends to see this as being fully in memorial.
     
  17. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    I am not trying to stir anything up here, but by that definition, how could the sacraments themselves be applied to any other than those who know they have indeed been already saved now? As that definition includes identifying them as part of the NC, as now being partakers, sealed and identified as now being such?
     
  18. VictorBravo

    VictorBravo Administrator Staff Member

    Moderation

    Let's bring the topic back to the "rerailment", that is, the scope of work for laymen theologians.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  19. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    I teach SS in the PCA. I am not ordained. There are always elders present in the class. I guess it could be said that I am representing and not actually teaching; much like how the LS is sometimes passed through the pews by various congregants. :p

    *I am a Seminary student, however.....
     
  20. Timmay

    Timmay Puritan Board Freshman

    I teach Catechism in the PCA but with elder approved curriculum. And I lead a Bible study for adults, again under elder oversight.

    But what about writing books for outside the congregation?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    I as well, pass my outline through the pastor, prior to me embarking on the subject.

    Books? Well, I believe, personally that if you plan on publishing, since u are under their authority, it would do u well in running the book by them prior to publishing-I would want their stamp of approval.

    I have a website...that has sparked some controversy a few times on certain doctrinal positions I take. For example, EP. It's hard not saying, on one hand, you hold to a position and write something substantial and on the other hand, not imply by example, that the other person is wrong-if u follow.

    in my opinion, writing for a blog, website or books would fall, generally under ch 20 of the WCF.
     
  22. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    In the context of the local congregation and its Minister or TE, in my opinion no.
     
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