Obligation to Christianize Society

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Unless I've read too rapidly, I haven't seen the sense that we are to bring all areas of our lives into submission to the Christ that saved us: that would include how we vote, how we run our business, our call for what is right in society, how we educate our children, and so forth. When the gospel, by God's grace, pervades churches, communities, and whole nations, radical change will occur. It starts with a radical change of heart followed by the faithful teaching of God's word and its application to all areas of life.

As others have mentioned, government, or for that matter culture, can't change the heart, so Constantine could no more make a Christian nation than I could turn a rabbit into a dog by placing it in a kennel and saying it is so. A more recent example would be the "do good for the sake of doing good" Christianity pushed by Victorian England. We are still seeing the negative results played out across the globe.
 
I think it is a foolish thing to try to "christianize" society. We ought to go and spread the Word but the idea that we can make people become Christians by setting laws that legislate morality is absurd.
 
If by that you mean that God's Word and Christ's authority have nothing to say regarding the proper government of the nations of the earth, then you are severely mistaken, and have drunk deeply of the wells of the Anabaptists. Your view is not a Reformed position, and is contradicted by Reformers and Reformed Confessions. Worst of all, it is a radically unreformed approach to the Old Testament Oracles of God, and their confirmation in the New Testament.

Are you saying that one must be a Theonomist in order to be Reformed?

Ronda,

What do you mean by Theonomist? People have differing definitions, some of which I believe are quite misleading.

If by Theonomist you mean someone who takes the scriptural directives to civil society seriously, then yes. If you mean that they would have agreed to every word uttered by Greg Bahnsen (a common misrepresentation of Theonomy), then no.

Cheers,

---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 PM ----------

I think it is a foolish thing to try to "christianize" society. We ought to go and spread the Word but the idea that we can make people become Christians by setting laws that legislate morality is absurd.

Joseph,

This is a common misrepresentation of what it means to Christianize society. Christ commanded us to make the nations of the earth His disciples. The prophets promised it would be thus, and the Apostles confirm it.

Every society legislates a given morality, and the morality of each society is determined by the god or God of that society. Christianization simply means that Christ is the Lawgiver, Judge and Savior. Indeed, in Scripture, replacing the true and living God with some other "lawgiver" is idolatry of the worst sort: it gives His glory to another.

Cheers,
 
I think this is an issue of whether the Christianization needs to be from the inside-out or the outside-in.

We need to make disciples that will claim Jesus as King over all spheres of life due to the inward change within them first (inside to outside Christianization) as opposed to governments trying to force people into a religiousity (outside to inside).

As we matheteuo panta ta ethne, the inward changes of the Gospel will result in outward societal changes.

Theonomists and non-theonomists (or little t theonomists, since all Christians want to make Jesus King in some form or fashion) can all say amen to that.
 
I think this is an issue of whether the Christianization needs to be from the inside-out or the outside-in.

We need to make disciples that will claim Jesus as King over all spheres of life due to the inward change within them first (inside to outside Christianization) as opposed to governments trying to force people into a religiousity (outside to inside).

As we matheteuo panta ta ethne, the inward changes of the Gospel will result in outward societal changes.

Theonomists and non-theonomists (or little t theonomists, since all Christians want to make Jesus King in some form or fashion) can all say amen to that.


How does that manifest itself in our daily lives? Will (or should it) "drive" us to become actively involved in our communities? While I believe change should come from inside out, does that give me an excuse not to do anything to help change the society/community in which I live?

I hear so often from my christian brothers and sisters that we don't need to be bothered because God is going to do what He's going to do, and we can't stop it.
 
Yes, I believe we ought to be very much involved with our neighbors, communities, and involved daily in works of compassion and mercy, both as individuals and as churches.

This won't merely manifest in "good words" (speaking the truth) but will also involve "good works" (helping the hurting, whether you will get a chance to put in a promo for Jesus or not).

And this will reach into every area of life, including spending habits, political habits,community involvement, etc.
 
Then I think "Christianize society" is a bad way of saying it. Why dont we just spread the gospel and let that convict. If that's what it means to christianize society, then I am on board.
 
The great commission is to make disciples of all nations rather than trying to Christianising the nations. An example may be seen in Constantine who declared his empire Christian but this was merely Christianising pagans. Indeed much of Roman Catholic mission is simply to do the very same.

Christianising people is like giving a rusty old car a coat of paint. It may look OK but underneath it all it is rotting away. Discipleship is much more. It is not merely doing Christian things but it is about being a Christian. Its not just giving your old car a coat of paint but a whole new body and engine.

Its not the nations that become Christian but the people living in them. As people change so society changes. (as in the great revivals of the 18th century and subsequent laws that were passed reflecting the Christian values) I do believe that in faithfully proclaiming the word, vast numbers can be converted whether they are in so called closed countries or not. Psalms and other passages that speak of the nations worshipping God refer to times when large numbers of their inhabitants are converted and the nation changes from within rather than nations changing themselves by passing laws that have the appearance of Christianity about them.

This is very helpful and seems to be in line with what I've been thinking about.

How does this work out in our daily lives? And how does this fit in (or does it fit in) with political activism?

Christians should be active in whatever walk of life they are in. Whether that is as a politician, an office worker, a factory worker, a butcher, a baker or candlestick maker. In the realm of politics, creating legislation should be done according to your Christian principles. However it should be stressed that laws reflecting Christian values do not make people Christians and secondly although Christians should be active in politics, there is no such thing as a Christian party. The church and the state are two separate entities.

Both Joseph and Daniel were active in political office and made quite an impact in both Egypt and Babylon. However an interesting example may be seen in the life of Jonah. He preached to the Ninevites, they repented and God's judgment was averted. Although the king issued a decree to put on sackcloth it seems repentance came from the inhabitants. In Daniel, both Nebuchadnezzar and Darius had some awareness of God and likewise made decrees for the people to worship God or at least not tospeak against him. But how effective were these decrees? Did they cause any of the Babylonians to turn to God? We do not know of course, nor do we know if the Ninevites produced any lasting fruit but it seems to me that the Ninevites benefited more from Jonah's preaching than the Babylonians did from royal decrees.
 
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