Scott Bushey
Puritanboard Commissioner
In my last post in the thread....
Post 18
Post 18
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Only our Lord would truly knows this and I see no benefit from trying to determine the exact moment. I am a Presbyterian for pete's sakeWhen was he converted?
If a converted person is saved, as you answered above, then I would say No, but this is still a mysterious at times. Particularly regarding elect infants. Our confession does address elect infants afterall.Can he be converted without any mental assent to biblical truth?
I would say no.Can he assent to any biblical truth without first being regenerated?
Only our Lord would truly knows this and I see no benefit from trying to determine the exact moment. I am a Presbyterian from pete's sake
If the old testament saints did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit how were they sanctified?
If a converted person is saved, as you answered above, then I would say no, but this is still a mystery. Our confession does address elect infants.
Scott look back at my answer, I made a typo. Please update my portion that you quoted.A man cannot be converted without a mental assent to biblical facts.
he can be regenerate, but not converted (as I expressed in my island example).
http://www.semperreformanda.com/2015/03/4398/
Scott, I believe the OT saints had the Holy Spirit.
Bruce,Trying to drive a long, temporal wedge between regeneration and conversion is largely fruitless. There is no observable way to determine if such a thing is existent, assuming that it is theoretically stable. At best, it might provide some ex post facto explanation for why someone seemed to linger for a time between saved and lost, a long-time-coming to faith. Meanwhile, as far as anyone can tell, he could simply be resisting the Spirit, and if a reprobate will "win" that battle.
There are other ways to handle whatever "gap" there might appear to be, looking back to seek for some possible early-spark of the Spirit's gracious intervention upon the saved. We often call such effects, "common operations of the Spirit," which for the elect issue in a different result than for the reprobate. That, in my judgment, is a wiser course than adopting the notion of possibly many (elect) people walking about--sometimes for years--in a regenerated but unconverted state.
Trying to drive a long, temporal wedge between regeneration and conversion is largely fruitless. There is no observable way to determine if such a thing is existent, assuming that it is theoretically stable.
At best, it might provide some ex post facto explanation for why someone seemed to linger for a time between saved and lost a long-time-coming to faith.
as far as anyone can tell, he could simply be resisting the Spirit