Omnipresence

[Dekybo]

I am teaching my congregation theology on Sunday evenings and we are going through the attributes of God. This past Sunday we went over omnipresence and I had a question pertaining to this attribute. If we believe that God is ever present in all places in his entire being, then what about him being in hell? Obviously God does not reside in hell, so is he therefore not omnipresent? My wife and I we pressed with this question again last night in family worship going through Psalm 5 with David saying that God does not dwell with evil (v.4). Any thoughts or good sources to help me would be much appreciated.

 

[TylerRay]

I am teaching my congregation theology on Sunday evenings and we are going through the attributes of God. This past Sunday we went over omnipresence and I had a question pertaining to this attribute. If we believe that God is ever present in all places in his entire being, then what about him being in hell? Obviously God does not reside in hell, so is he therefore not omnipresent? My wife and I we pressed with this question again last night in family worship going through Psalm 5 with David saying that God does not dwell with evil (v.4). Any thoughts or good sources to help me would be much appreciated.

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. -Rev 14:10

Why should God not dwell where is glory is manifested in his wrath poured out?

We should remember that God's omnipresence is the other side of the coin to his immensity--that he is boundless. He transcends and fills all of his creation, and it cannot contain him.

 

[rickclayfan]

Stephen Charnock on the Omnipresence of God:

"He is in all creatures as their preserver: in the damned, as their terror; in his people, as their protector. He fills hell with his severity, heaven with his glory, his people with his grace."

"Whoever heard of a sunbeam stained by shining upon a quagmire, any more than sweetened by breaking into a perfumed room? Though the light shines upon pure and impure things, yet it mixes not itself with either of them; so though God be present with devils and wicked men, yet without any mixture."

 

[Dekybo]

Thank you both

 

[Ed Walsh]

then what about him being in hell?

From Fisher's Catechism: (I love this question. I don't know if Love is the right word...)

Q. 40. How is he present in hell?
A. In a way of tremendous power and justice, upholding the damned in their being, that they may lie under the strokes of his vindictive wrath for evermore, Psalm 90:11; Matt. 25:46.

 

[Dekybo]

Thank you. I'm not familiar with Fisher's catechism.

 

[timfost]

Psalm 139:7-8

Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.

 

[Ed Walsh]

I'm not familiar with Fisher's catechism.

There is an imperfect copy online here http://www.reformed.org/documents/fisher/index_fish.html

If you really like it there is a link where you can buy a copy. I think it's great.

 

[Dekybo]

Timfost,
I truly appreciate scriptural support, but I do not know if psalm 139:7-8 holds up. I think what you are referencing is the KJV whereas the more modern translations such as the ESV have Sheol here. It may convey the same meaning in both translations, but I do not know if I am completely convinced.

 

[timfost]

Timfost,
I truly appreciate scriptural support, but I do not know if psalm 139:7-8 holds up. I think what you are referencing is the KJV whereas the more modern translations such as the ESV have Sheol here. It may convey the same meaning in both translations, but I do not know if I am completely convinced.

Hi Derek,

Thanks for the challenge. I think the OT does sometimes use Sheol as a place of judgment, not only the "grave." (See Ps. 55:15 and Prov. 9:18, for example.)

Historically, it is within bounds to understand "hell" in Ps. 139:8 as the place of judgment. Ursinus:

The soul of Christ, after his death, was, therefore, in the hands of his Father in Paradise, and not in hell. Neither has the sophism any force, which affirms that he was also in the hands of his Father in hell, according to the declaration of the Psalmist, “If I make my bed in hell, behold thou art there;” (Ps. 139:8).

If 139:8 simply refers to the grave, I would stand by the doctrine, though it may be the wrong proof-text.

 

[timfost]

It also may be of help to define hell as the place where God shows no mercy, not the place where God is absent.

 

[Dekybo]

It also may be of help to define hell as the place where God shows no mercy, not the place where God is absent.

This seems to be the answer that makes sense. Thanks you and everyone else for clearing the air.