On bishop=presbyter, citing Theodoret, no, Augustine, no Danaeu's commentary on Augustine, no...

Discussion in 'Church History' started by NaphtaliPress, Feb 20, 2019.

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  1. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    This is sort of a first for degrees of separation from what was claimed for a quotation! The reference below is from JDRE* which I am revising, and it clearly sends you to Theodoret's Haereticarum Fabularum, and the quotation was not there (I looked all through book four as it is not clear to me if the first section was meant or another). Then I got a hit on the Danaeu commentary, so went looking for Augustine's work on heresies, but it was not there and so went back to look closer at the Danaeu. It appears the words are his words of commentary on Augustine and not either his, or Theodoret's words as the footnote infers. Danaeu does comment two pages prior making a reference to Theodoret and book four of his work against heresies.

    There's one word rendered in Greek not in the source material which makes me think there is yet one more intervening source which added that. I'm out of ideas (I checked some contemporaneous works on Presbyterianism). Any ideas, those of you who know Latin and Greek (I don't)? What does the Greek word at the end in square brackets mean? I was hoping it simply replaces the omitted Latin confuse or gerìue, neither of which Google will translate to English. The question is, who inserted that or the minor differences; hence my thinking JDRE maybe have used a work that relied on Danaeu and not that directly.

    "Theodoret" [sic all but the last Greek word is apparently from Lambert Daneau’s commentary on Augustine against heresies; D. Aurelij Augustini Hipponensis Episcopi Liber de haeresibus (1595), 176v], "speaking against the Aerian Heretics, reports this truth which they held, viz., Presbyterum ab Episcopo [ordine & gradu], τάξει et ἀξιώματι, non differe (dixit Aerius): sed qui Presbyter est, episcopum dici, quatenus in uno aliquo actu, in quo à [sic ab] Presbyterio electus est, præest cœtui, quia in ecclesia nihil [confusè] {ἀτακτῶς} fieri [gerìue] debet."​
    While no need to repeat my journey, but if you have an afternoon to waste, the works are below:
    Theodoret, Haereticarum Fabularum Libri V (book 4, and I'm not sure which section)
    Augustine, De Haeresibus.
    Daneau's commentary on Augustine against heresies.

    *Jus Divinum Regiminis Ecclesiastici, or the Divine Right of Church Government (1646, 1647, 1654, 1799, 1844, 1995).
     
  2. DTK

    DTK Puritan Board Junior

    Chris, I have English translations of Theodoret's Haereticarum fabularum compendium and Augustine's Heresies. I think you now have the former in your possession. Let me know if I can look something up for you in that work of Augustine (I have a hard back translation of it by New City Press).
     
  3. DTK

    DTK Puritan Board Junior

    I think the following is the relevant pericope in Augustine's work. Augustine uses the term presbyter, which is mistranslated as "priest" . . .

    Augustine (354-430): LIII. The Aerians are named after a certain Aerius. He was a priest, but he is said to have been deeply hurt, because he could not be ordained a bishop. He fell into the Arian heresy and also added some teachings of his own. He said that the sacrifice ought not to be offered for the dead and that the solemnly prescribed fasts should not be observed, but that each one should fast as he wishes so that he does not seem to be under the law. He also said that a priest should not be distinguished from a bishop in any respect. Some claim that these people, like the Encratities or Apotactites, admit to their communion only those who practice continence and those who have so renounced the world that they have no possessions of their own. Epiphanius says that they do not abstain from eating meat, but Philaster credits them with such abstinence. John E. Rotelle, O.S.A., ed., The Works of Saint Augustine, Arianism and Other Heresies, Answer to Maximinus the Arian, Part 1, Vol. 18, trans. Roland J. Teske, S.J. (Hyde Park: New City Press, 1995), p. 47.
    Latin text: LIII. AERIANI ab Aerio quodam sunt, qui cum esset presbyter, doluisse fertur quod episcopus non potuit ordinari; et in Arianorum haeresim lapsus, propria quoque dogmata addidisse nonnulla, dicens offerri pro dormientibus non oportere; nec statuta solemniter celebranda esse jejunia, sed cum quisque voluerit jejunandum, ne videatur esse sub lege. Dicebat etiam presbyterum ab episcopo nulla differentia debere discerni. Quidam perhibent istos, sicut Encratitas vel Apotactitas, non admittere ad communionem suam nisi continentes, et eos qui saeculo ita renuntiaverint, ut propria nulla possideant. Ab esca tamen carnium non eos abstinere dicit Epiphanius: Philaster vero et hanc eis tribuit abstinentiam. De Haeresibus, LIII, PL 42:39-40.
     
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