Oneness Pentecostalism Heresies

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Yeah it's me. I live in San Diego and so a life long Padres' fan...... And you say there is no purgatory:coffee:

Yeah brother. These past 5 months of going back and forth, God was doing a work on me and in me. I had to wait until that work was completed before I could walk from Oneness. It was God who brought me out, and by His sovereign grace I am standing firm in the faith.

Also, FYI, since God has done a work, and I can say fully that He has regenerated my heart truly for the first time in my life, I have opted to be baptized hopefully this weekend.

Dave, you be blessed in the Lord, old man, and may He deliver you to a better place... like Houston! :lol:
 
William I know how difficult leaving a oneness group can be. God has truly blessed you don't go back brother.
 
William I know how difficult leaving a oneness group can be. God has truly blessed you don't go back brother.

I have no intention of ever returning... God finished a work and it was confirmed by an e-mail I received from my former pastor, who labeled me a reprobate, heretic, and a pig returning to his mire. That sealed the deal that God had done a work, because it did not hurt anymore.

I am delivered from there. I love those in that group and pray their eyes be opened to the grace of God by the working of the regenerating power of the Spirit, even as God has done in me.
 
William, Praise God you were able to get out. Were you in the United Pentecostal Church? I was in the UPC for about 5 years and went to Indiana Bible College it was there that I spent a lot of time studying the bible on my own and seeing that what they taught did not match up to well with what the bible taught and eventually left the group. Except I was burnt out on church and especially preachers for over ten years and only just recently started going back to church and discovered reformed theology. If you managed to avoid the burnout and cynicism you are most fortunate.
Good luck with you and your endeavors.

-----Added 7/17/2009 at 11:11:43 EST-----

I was a UPC/oneness member for over 30 years and my cousin is the General Sup. of the UPC. I think it is only fair to point out that oneness pentecostalism is not a monolith. There are variants. The "magic hair" doctrine is an extreme example held by some but not all.

The consistant areas that almost all oneness would argee on are the absolute 'oneness' of God and the insistence to baptize using the "Jesus Name" formula. The speaking of tongues as being essential to one's salvation is not held by all.

I never heard that Jesus was not God or the magic hair thing and I went to one of their bible colleges. Some of the things he states sounds familiar but a lot does not and I spent a lot of time in different churches. To be fair I think a lot of those people are saved they are just led astray by bad teaching. Plus, they sort of tell everyone that they have the truth and everyone else is in heresy. They imply that if you leave them, you are going to hell. But to be fair an OPC pastor said the same thing to me when I told him I was thinking of becoming Baptist or Lutheran.
 
I never heard that Jesus was not God or the magic hair thing and I went to one of their bible colleges. Some of the things he states sounds familiar but a lot does not and I spent a lot of time in different churches. To be fair I think a lot of those people are saved they are just led astray by bad teaching. Plus, they sort of tell everyone that they have the truth and everyone else is in heresy. They imply that if you leave them, you are going to hell. But to be fair an OPC pastor said the same thing to me when I told him I was thinking of becoming Baptist or Lutheran.

Through much psycological turmoil I've come to the conclusion that the majority do NOT understand the Gospel and therefore I have to treat them as a mission field.
 
I agree they do NOT understand the gospel but I would have to say that the handful of people I am thinking of are probably saved, though deceived. They are very brainwashed into thinking that they have the truth and if they leave, even to go to another denomination, it is like leaving the church and putting yourself under God's judgment. It is like physiological imprisonment.

It is hard to talk to these people because they treat you like you are backslidden (sp?) and are trying to convert you and won't listen to anything you have to say. It is like talking to Mormons or JW's.

I just recently got back in touch with a good friend I went to bible college with through Facebook, he even lives just a couple hours away, and I am trying to figure out how to talk to him and possibly plant seeds of truth. I know I will be treated with pity, like I could not handle the truth and gave myself over to the Devil.

I know they are listed as a cult because of their denial of the Trinity but I think it is the psychological manipulation that makes it a cult.
 
I know they are listed as a cult because of their denial of the Trinity but I think it is the psychological manipulation that makes it a cult.

I wonder how anyone could have been in the UPC and not heard of the magic hair thing (doesn't the name Ruth Rieder Harvey ring a bell?), but I suppose it depends on which circles you run in. There isn't exactly an organized theology in Pentecostalism.

But I agree that the psychological manipulation is very heavy, and that it is that which makes it a 'cult' in the fullest sense.
 
The "magic hair thing" is starting to come back to me. It has been 15 years since I was in the UPC. I might be confusing what I learned from my own study versus what I was taught.

It looks as if there are a lot of ex-oneness folks here.
 
I appreciate the insight everyone is offering! I am not 100% familiar with oneness so the more info into their beliefs is much appreciated!
 
I appreciate the insight everyone is offering! I am not 100% familiar with oneness so the more info into their beliefs is much appreciated!

They are a Pentecostal group that denies the trinity and has a modalistic view of God. The majority believe that salvation comes as a result of repentance, baptism in the name of Jesus, and the infilling of the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
 
I have really enjoyed this thread. I am also ex-Oneness Pentecostal (with a side order of gnosticism). My family on my mother's side are Oneness Pentecostal. I hear it from my mother all the time. She thinks I am in a cult, believing in reformed theology. She says my Geneva Bible is like a Book of Mormon. *sigh*.

I recommend "Christianity without the Cross: A History of Salvation in Oneness Pentecostalism" by Thomas A. Fudge

It really opened my eyes to things I didn't even know about the Oneness Pentecostal church history!

Christianity Without the Cross: A ... - Google Books
 
*bump*

I have no history with OPs but am fascinated with cults and conversion to Christianity. Great stuff!
 
This helped me trying to understand the Trinity coming out of the Oneness belief for almost 30 years, I just thought I would share.. I got this off of the CRTA site.

Salvation is accomplished by the almighty power of the triune God. The Father chose a people, the Son died for them, the Holy Spirit makes Christ's death effective by bringing the elect to faith and repentance, thereby causing them to willingly obey the Gospel. The entire process (election, redemption, regeneration) is the work of God and is by grace alone. Thus God, not man, determines who will be the recipients of the gift of salvation.

Calvinism Soteriology Topics
 
I'm impressed with how many on this List were once in that cult. Praise God for His redeeming power.

Can anyone tell me about Urshan Grad School here in St. Louis? Their students are frequently on the Covenant Seminary campus to use the library. One prior post mentioned a more liberal wing of the UP's. Where would Urshan fit on a spectrum, and what difference might that make?
 
Although I was raised in the United Methodist Church, I spent five years in the Oneness Pentecostal circle. Half of the time was in a "liberal" UPC church (By liberal I mean they allow some jewelry to be worn and let you watch TV but you can't go to the movies!) and the other half was in a very conservative "apostolic" church (They did not allow any jewelry or TV; my arms didn't see any sun for about two years). The only positive thing I can say about the bunch is that they know how to pray and would put most modern "Reformed" folks to shame in that area. Other than that, most of the churches have attributes that resemble cults, apart from their heresy. Thank God brother, you have been delivered from this. I thank the Lord that I was too! Ironically, I became a Calvinist within six years after leaving this sect. I studied the Bible dilligently for the truth and to rid my mind and heart from Scriptural error.
 
Well the war goes on with my 1UPC mother. Please keep me in prayer.. she will not listen to anything I say. She thinks I am the one in a cult because I am not Pentecostal. She thinks my Geneva Bible is like a Book of Mormon no matter how many times, or different ways I explain to here what it is.. She now thinks I worship 3 gods and do not believe in the New Testament at all. Please pray for my strength.
 
Jym,

I'll be praying for your relationship with your Mom. If anything, remember that it will take the power of the true Holy Spirit to open her eyes, and it may take time.

Also, as another former Oneness Pentecostal, I wanted to jump in:

Whenever you hear of folks talking about the conservative/liberal movements in the UPCI/Oneness Pentecostalism, it mainly refers to the issue of the holiness standards of dress. Oneness Penecostals all still teach the same message of Holy Ghost=speaking in tongues and literal Jesus name baptism--there is no compromise there.

Some of the more ultra-conservatives in the movement formed a new group, the Worldwide Pentecostal Fellowship, because they felt that the UPCI had become more 'worldy' and less strict on the standards (in one specific instance, the UPCI voted that it was OK for their churches to advertise on television).

I'll agree with Jym: anyone who wants a good, non-biased understanding of how the Oneness Pentecostal movement began should really pick up Dr. Fudge's book. It helped me greatly when I was left in 2006.
 
(Thank you Henry.. You and your prayer have been a great help to me...)

I have noticed that most people who are running to Christ, or feel drawn to him still have many disagreements with each other. The bible does say that we judge the fruits of people to tell if the are of God. But what about the ones that are off in sin but the hand of God. God has people going through trials and tribulations. This does not mean that they are not saved or Elect. That is why we have to preach the Gospel to every one so that the activation of the Holy Spirit in some one will regenerate them and make them alive in Christ. But what about the ones who already think they are saved. Are they? I mean I am looking at these Oneness Pentecostals who really believe that water baptism is what saves them. I used to believe the same way! How do you preach to someone who thinks they are already saved? That is why I can only take so much of the 1PC garbage of them just repeating Acts2:38 and John 3:5 over and over. The fact is that they are mis interparating these scriptures. I don't believe "preaching the Gospel" is debating the Word of God. What is Preaching the Gospel to you?

It took a very blatant and rude man challenging my belief in the 1PC faith. He broke down the scripture and defined the words then got in my face and said that pentecostolism is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. He called 1PC a lie from the pit of Hell. When the connection of the past convictions and his words connected.. I couldn't talk for 2 days. I was in shock, literally. But it wasn't until the Calvinistic messages of grace came in until i started actual spiritual healing from the years of spiritual abuse.

Being ex-Oneness Pentecostal, I feel like I need to help these people because I was there, I believed that lie. But I am completely lost as to how, I mean I need to know how to present the true gospel of the bible, salvation by Grace, Faith, and Christ alone. Sola Scriptura: relying on nothing extra biblical such as modern prophetic tongues, dreams and visions making the Bible forfeit.

Keep me in prayer.
 
It took a very blatant and rude man challenging my belief in the 1PC faith. He broke down the scripture and defined the words then got in my face and said that pentecostolism is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. He called 1PC a lie from the pit of Hell. When the connection of the past convictions and his words connected.. I couldn't talk for 2 days. I was in shock, literally. But it wasn't until the Calvinistic messages of grace came in until i started actual spiritual healing from the years of spiritual abuse.

This is very interesting to me. I have thought before that one of the things that I have difficulty coming to terms with in looking back is how seldom anyone from outside the cult told me that I was wrong. Being of the cult mindset, I assumed (as everyone that I knew in the cult assumed) that they knew we were right, but they didn't want to live for God. I wish someone had done exactly as this guy did for you.

When I talk to UPC-ers, I tell them flat-out that they are deceived and that I pray that God will open their eyes to the truth of their condition. It never fails that they are stunned out of their minds. They are all prepared to be the holy ones and expect that I will admit that I am backslidden and miserably far from God and living in sin.

Anyone reading this who runs across UPC people ... for the love of God and for the sake of mercy, tell them they are wrong. Mostly, they are either born into it or they had no experience with Christianity other than the UPCI. Mostly, they really don't know.
 
Anyone reading this who runs across UPC people ... for the love of God and for the sake of mercy, tell them they are wrong. Mostly, they are either born into it or they had no experience with Christianity other than the UPCI. Mostly, they really don't know.

You're absolutely right; the UPCI was the only Christianity I knew until I went to high school and college and really learned how truly big the body of Christ really is (I did end up staying in the UPCI for 5 more years, but that's another story :))

Something else I've realized about speaking with UPC folks is that you need to come with scripture (specifically in pointing out the original Greek and Hebrew and focusing on context). Folks can argue feelings and miracles for ages, but anyone who is a Christian must bring feelings and thoughts with the Bible.

In instances where a loved one in the UPC won't listen to what you have to say, or refuse to engage what the scriptures say in context, all we can do is pray for them and trust that if they are one of God's elect, He will ensure that they will ultimately be saved. If anything, the LORD could be using you to plant a seed in their life that someone else will need to water.
 
When "speaking in tongues" was there a lot of repetition of words like shundai or shabuta?

Shandala, shandala, shandala.

I got annoyed with all the repetitiveness that I heard, so I used to hold an image of the alphabet in my mind to be sure that I was hitting a wide variety of letters.:lol: Then I took a French class in junior high, and threw a few French letters into the mix to give it a more exotic foreign-sounding flair. You'd think it would have occurred to me sooner that it wasn't a supernatural phenomenon, considering the amount of trouble I went to making it sound 'better'.

I teach at a non-denominational Christian school (we just had our 25th anniv- about 140 students K-12), but we use the facilities of a "Tabernacle" church. They are pentacostal and on occasion their elders (male and female) will join us in prayer. When school started this year, the Tab's elders joined the schools teachers in prayer. A woman elder standing next to me was yapping away. It took an incredible amount of restraint not to turn to her and say, "Stop it!".
 
Folks can argue feelings and miracles for ages, but anyone who is a Christian must bring feelings and thoughts with the Bible.

Amen! When talking to Pentecostals, I always start by asking them whether they believe the Bibleand whether they trust the Bible more than anything else. That way, when they later tell me that the Bible is irrelevant because they have some experience or feeling, I can remind them of what they said earlier.

I teach at a non-denominational Christian school (we just had our 25th anniv- about 140 students K-12), but we use the facilities of a "Tabernacle" church. They are pentacostal and on occasion their elders (male and female) will join us in prayer. When school started this year, the Tab's elders joined the schools teachers in prayer. A woman elder standing next to me was yapping away. It took an incredible amount of restraint not to turn to her and say, "Stop it!".

I admire your restraint.
 
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