Open Letter to Fans of Christian Hip Hop Music

[ooguyx]

Since this is obviously a sensitive issue for so many, and resulted in quite a few comments, I’d like to respond en masse, so to speak. It seems that the majority of you insist the concert/video in question was ‘entertainment’, and not worship.

Honest question. When one sings about Jesus Christ, regardless of ’style’, regardless of location, is that worship or entertainment? If a professing Christian can sing about Christ, and call it ‘entertainment’ and not worship, something is terribly wrong. Someone said to me recently that “adding Jesus-speak’ to music does not sanctify it.”

I believe that’s true.

From the beginning of Scripture and the creation account, the idea of separation is introduced and taught throughout Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation.

So to all you Christian hip-hop fans, can you honestly say – before God – that you can ’sing’ about the Lord of Glory and not call it worship? It seems to me that if you can sing/rap/recite anything about Jesus Christ, and insist it is only ‘entertainment’ then what does that say about your true view of God and of yourself?

In all sincerity, Jesus Christ did not die on the cross for your entertainment, and if we have a proper view of the value of a soul and what it cost Him to redeem, we should think long and hard about how we present Him to the world.

Also, before I forget, you do not have the right to determine how God is worshiped, you never did. There are too many examples in Scripture that prove that.

Me thinks that this is a strawman argument. By his own admission hip-hopper's don't believe that they are worshipping God with their music. I just don't buy this argument that because someone sings of God or the Christian life, they automatically fall into the category of worship and then must adhere to the RPW. By this same argument if I serve wine and bread at a social gathering then I would have to remind those in attendance that only Christians can eat the bread and drink the wine, etc.

 

[au5t1n]

Since this is obviously a sensitive issue for so many, and resulted in quite a few comments, I’d like to respond en masse, so to speak. It seems that the majority of you insist the concert/video in question was ‘entertainment’, and not worship.

Honest question. When one sings about Jesus Christ, regardless of ’style’, regardless of location, is that worship or entertainment? If a professing Christian can sing about Christ, and call it ‘entertainment’ and not worship, something is terribly wrong. Someone said to me recently that “adding Jesus-speak’ to music does not sanctify it.”

I believe that’s true.

From the beginning of Scripture and the creation account, the idea of separation is introduced and taught throughout Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation.

So to all you Christian hip-hop fans, can you honestly say – before God – that you can ’sing’ about the Lord of Glory and not call it worship? It seems to me that if you can sing/rap/recite anything about Jesus Christ, and insist it is only ‘entertainment’ then what does that say about your true view of God and of yourself?

In all sincerity, Jesus Christ did not die on the cross for your entertainment, and if we have a proper view of the value of a soul and what it cost Him to redeem, we should think long and hard about how we present Him to the world.

Also, before I forget, you do not have the right to determine how God is worshiped, you never did. There are too many examples in Scripture that prove that.

Me thinks that this is a strawman argument. By his own admission hip-hopper's don't believe that they are worshipping God with their music. I just don't buy this argument that because someone sings of God or the Christian life, they automatically fall into the category of worship and then must adhere to the RPW. By this same argument if I serve wine and bread at a social gathering then I would have to remind those in attendance that only Christians can eat the bread and drink the wine, etc.

Right, he's failing to distinguish between general and special worship. In the general sense, I can worship God by building a fence in somebody's front yard, but that is not "worship" in the sense it is usually used in Scripture, i.e. the special sense.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

So if the music (or whatever you may want to call it) is not meant to worship God with, what is the purpose of it? How about exhortation? How about renewing the mind? I have heard it said that all of life is worship. Whatsoever we do we should do to the Glory of God. Can I play golf to the glory of God? I believe I can. But that doesn't mean I am going to take my #1 Wood to a Church worship service.

There is a difference between worshipping in the context of prescription when we meet on the LORD's Day and going about our daily life in an attitude of worship. I do not like Rap music. But I have seen others exhorted and edified in thought which lead to deeds that pleased the Lord.

Just my humble opinion and I aint always correct.

 

[awretchsavedbygrace]

 

[nnatew24]

I don't think the issue here is whether or not the genre itself is sinful, but whether or not the musical genre is an appropriate channel for the gospel message.

In other words, all musical styles communicate some sort of subliminal attitudes. There is a reason that we exercise to fast music, and fall asleep to soft music, etc. To me, the question is: does the style coincide with the message? Does it highlight the message, make it beautiful, exalt it above the channel it is flowing through? And to me it is clear: the hip-hop style and culture is a distraction and a hindrance to the gospel message.

I'd say the same thing about other styles as well. A advertising jingle that might be cute and helpful in selling ice-cream cones is not appropriate when we're trying to communicate the weightiness of the gospel message. The style is inconsistent with the message.

 

[Andres]

I don't think the issue here is whether or not the genre itself is sinful, but whether or not the musical genre is an appropriate channel for the gospel message.

In other words, all musical styles communicate some sort of subliminal attitudes. There is a reason that we exercise to fast music, and fall asleep to soft music, etc. To me, the question is: does the style coincide with the message? Does it highlight the message, make it beautiful, exalt it above the channel it is flowing through? And to me it is clear: the hip-hop style and culture is a distraction and a hindrance to the gospel message.

I'd say the same thing about other styles as well. A advertising jingle that might be cute and helpful in selling ice-cream cones is not appropriate when we're trying to communicate the weightiness of the gospel message. The style is inconsistent with the message.

Thanks for everyones comments so far. My position in the beginning of the thread was basically the one that Nathan asserts here and I believe it still shall be. However, after reading through most people's posts in defense of hip hop, I am seeing how it is permissable for God to use this genre of music. I personally still don't like hip hop, including Christian, but this will be my own personal choice rather than something I find scriptural basis for.

 

[awretchsavedbygrace]

The style is inconsistent with the message.

Can you please explain? What style does it have?

 

[nnatew24]

The style is inconsistent with the message.

Can you please explain? What style does it have?

I'll let Terry Johnson explain, in the excellent book, Reformed Worship - Worship that is According to Scripture:

“It may be permissible for a church to begin its worship with the song “Deep & Wide”, then sing as its second hymn “Zaccheus Was a Wee Little Man”, and conclude the service with “The B-I-B-L-E”. ‘Scripture does not forbid it’, a strict Biblicist might say. But such would be doubtful propriety…we say that, not because there is a bible verse that forbids these children’s songs, but because of a more general sense of what is appropriate in light of nature…

“Not every question in worship [NW: or-I am arguing here, music] or life can be answered by a direct application of a Bible verse. Indeed it is legalistic and fundamentalistic to expect to do so. Right living rarely consists of simply applying the Bible’s rules to circumstances. Rather, right living requires the illumination of the Holy Spirit and wisdom in applying general principles to daily choices. Pharisees limit the Bible’s application to the specific words -you shall not kill, commit murder, and so on, and ignore the broader application…

“The Apostles regularly appeal to what is ‘fitting’ or ’suitable’ or ‘proper’ in light of Scripture’s explicit commands, and yet without spelling out exactly what these things mean. (1 Cor 11:13,14; Titus 2:1; 1 Tim 2:9,10, Eph 5:3,4)”​

I’m not saying that the music style itself is sinful, but I do believe the medium itself promotes an attitude that is antithetical to humility, reverence, and worship, as some other forms of music do as well. It may not be worship music, per se, but they are taking the name of the Triune God upon their lips, and His name must be used in an appropriate, reverent manner lest we violate the 3rd commandment.

This genre seems to fail to account for the weight and seriousness of what the singer is communicating. My concerns are even furthered when I view videos from these concerts where, despite many holy, excellent, and humble truths being shouted, it’s a party, dancing atmosphere that (again) seems completely contradictory to the words being sung (and I realize that this is subjective, so its just an observation from my perspective).

 

[OPC'n]

I highly concur! The only Christian artist I listen to is Shai Linne and I listen to him on the Sabbath bc I need some music to listen to. But he isn't in it for entertaining the masses. His songs rap out reformed theology which teaches others. One way we worship God is by glorifying Him by spreading the Gospel which Shai does.

 

[AThornquist]

Of course, when people look outside of music and judge things to be worldly by association they are unwilling to be truly consistent. Did you know that the internet is used extensively for p0rnography? And are you using the internet? *GASP*

Come on, there is nothing in Scripture that describes this type of music as ungodly. Just like the internet, sexuality, or food, hip hop music is only sinful if sin is involved. The internet with lust; sexuality with adultery; food with gluttony; hip hop with various iniquities. In itself, the genre is not sinful, just like the other things listed.

For my own little journey, I used to be a de facto legalist and decree all hip hop sinful because of what I saw in secular hip hop. Of course, I was seeing sin in the object and not the heart and conveniently ignored my inconsistency. Once I started listening to brothers such as Lecrae, Shai Linne, FLAME, and others, I quickly became hooked because the beats that I enjoyed were accompanied by solid theology. I came to realize the difference between this Lecrae hip hop CD and a CD with classic hymns: PREFERENCE.

 

[OPC'n]

I think there's a difference between CCM and Christian music which talks about reformed theology. For me, it's all about the lyrics. The music style (from classical to heavy metal) is a mute point. I hate having to listen to CCM which has bad theology and sounds like they are singing love songs to their significant other.

 

[Philip]

I hate having to listen to CCM which has bad theology and sounds like they are singing love songs to their significant other.

If you're going to sing love songs to your significant other, sing love songs to your significant other, but don't market it as singing about God.

 

[awretchsavedbygrace]

but I do believe the medium itself promotes an attitude that is antithetical to humility, reverence

Have you ever heard Shai Linne? or Timothy Brindle? and if you have, would you say that this comment you made about christian hiphop is consistent with these artists and their music?

 

[SemperEruditio]

Ridiculous.

 

[puritanhope]

Could a Christian world-view, outside of her influence from the world, produce hip hop music? Rock? Country? Jazz?

I'm of the opinion that these styles of music are closer to sounding like wailing and gnashing of teeth than producing any actual harmony.

 

[Philip]

Could a Christian world-view, outside of her influence from the world, produce hip hop music? Rock? Country? Jazz?

I'm of the opinion that these styles of music are closer to sounding like wailing and gnashing of teeth than producing any actual harmony.

Could it produce symphonies operas bluegrass or gospel apart from these influences?

 

[awretchsavedbygrace]

I'm of the opinion that these styles of music are closer to sounding like wailing and gnashing of teeth than producing any actual harmony.

We arent discussing if you like the music or not. We are discussing whether the music in itself can be used to glorify God.

 

[puritanhope]

Could it produce symphonies operas bluegrass or gospel apart from these influences?

The Christian world-view is one that produces harmony, beauty, and order. Music should deeply stir emotions within the soul of a believer, causing him to meditate on righteousness, holiness, and truth. No one denies that music has the power to stir emotions. There is some some music that is so beautiful, so harmonious, that it can even awaken a conscious towards God. And then there is some music that produces rebellion, chaos, hatred of God, and neighbor. I will simply leave it at that.

If you're willing, please consider watching Hells Bells 2: The Power and Spirit of Popular Music. It's really easy to take this position lightly when the only exposure you have to it is an online forum. This is a weighty, and well done presentation presented by the folks that produced Amazing Grace: The History and Theology of Calvinism.

We arent discussing if you like the music or not. We are discussing whether the music in itself can be used to glorify God.

Then, so that I may be perfectly clear, that answer is no.

 

[Philip]

The Christian world-view is one that produces harmony, beauty, and order.

Could you define exactly what you mean by "harmony" "beauty" and "order" in this context? What objective standard are you using to determine what is harmonious, beautiful, and orderly? Would a Christian in an African, Middle Eastern, or Asian context necessarily concur?

Music should deeply stir emotions within the soul of a believer, causing him to meditate on righteousness, holiness, and truth.

So I gather that Beethoven's 5th Symphony doesn't measure up, then, as it is not meditative in mood? What of minor keys, such as those commonly used in the works of Bach, which many find depressing? Also, exactly where in Scripture are you deriving this standard from, considering that none of our musical conventions even existed in Biblical times?

 

[au5t1n]

Could a Christian world-view, outside of her influence from the world, produce hip hop music? Rock? Country? Jazz?

I'm of the opinion that these styles of music are closer to sounding like wailing and gnashing of teeth than producing any actual harmony.

Just exactly how much jazz have you listened to?

 

[puritanhope]

Your questions are answered in the documentary Hell's Bells to an extent that should satisfy your curiosity.

P. S.) Emotions of sorrow are righteous in the proper context.

 

[Philip]

Your questions are answered in the documentary Hell's Bells to an extent that should satisfy your curiosity.

P. S.) Emotions of sorrow are righteous in the proper context.

It is you I am asking. If you are going to maintain that these forms of music are objectively unlovely and/or chaotic, then you need to define precisely what you mean so that we can analyze the adequacy of your standard as normative for all, regardless of culture.

The sorrow of repentance is not induceable via music, but by conviction of the Holy Spirit.

 

[tlharvey7]

"The Christian world-view is one that produces harmony, beauty, and order"
chapter and verse please?

does not even a maggot possess some form of harmony, beauty, and order?

maybe not to me... but to some.
these things are subjective... the only possible exception being "order" within the worship service

 

[Gloria]

The Christian world-view is one that produces harmony, beauty, and order.

Could you define exactly what you mean by "harmony" "beauty" and "order" in this context? What objective standard are you using to determine what is harmonious, beautiful, and orderly? Would a Christian in an African, Middle Eastern, or Asian context necessarily concur?

Music should deeply stir emotions within the soul of a believer, causing him to meditate on righteousness, holiness, and truth.

So I gather that Beethoven's 5th Symphony doesn't measure up, then, as it is not meditative in mood? What of minor keys, such as those commonly used in the works of Bach, which many find depressing? Also, exactly where in Scripture are you deriving this standard from, considering that none of our musical conventions even existed in Biblical times?

Thank you for asking these questions.

Each time I've read about opposition to Christian rap (in general), it boils down to what comes off as cultural elitism. Now I'm just saying what I've perceived. To be clear, I'm not trying to pull a "race card" here, as I've seen both black and white believers come against Christian rap. It's totally possible to perceive a culture or ethnic group that is not your own as "superior".

I'm open for a reasonable discussion about what SCIPTURE says regarding holiness, worldliness and music BUT this idea that classical music, bluegrass or (fill in my favorite genre) is somehow, in and of itself, more "holy" than rap is just absurd.

I challenge anyone to listen to shai linne's Atonement Q&A and describe it as "merely inserting Jesus speak."

 

[Christopher88]

So what I have learned from brothers here (Not just this thread) is reformed worship is God focused. These Christian hip hop artist (and I don't like rap) are proclaiming more truth then half of the Sunday schools I have attended. In fact before I became reformed and started attending PCA, those songs in three mins. taught me more about God then the 1,000 sermons I heard growing up.

Is Christian hip hop worship? Yes. Why? It proclaims Christ not just says the name, it speaks of biblical truth, and it glorfys God. Everything in that one Shia song was about God, and was for God. If reformed worship is to be God focused, than I would consider Christian hip hop God focused, where I would consider CCM on the entertainment side.

CCM is about a Christian's walk and prayer journal. Nothing that speaks biblical truth. Now a few artist do, but it is a rare occasion.

I get the feeling if music has guitars and keyboards you deem it as sin, and not worship. I do not understand that view, and can not say I agree with it.

If Christ is glorfied in all things, and his truth is proclaimed, why does the genre matter?

 

[Kiffin]

Gloria hit it on the spot. Some of us don't realize that some of our "responses" to certain types of music are "culturally" learned. Once again, read Romans 14.

 

[jogri17]

While it is a sort of music that is inappropriate for the corporate worship of the church, I do believe there can be a sort of entertainment that is glorifying to God as our minds are brought back to the scriptures and the doctrines contained therein. Given most reformed churches use music and sing hymns written by men and our forefathers would make the same arguments, I don't think NAPARC, ARBCA and various independent church who call themselves reformed can in all seriousness make a serious case about this. Even the so called Psalters of many conservative reformed churches are not psalters but just paraphrases of lines from the psalms. And to further make the point, Urlich Zwingli and Calvin were strong advocates of the music of their day (Zwingli loved operas) they just didn't want it in corporate worship. So bottom line, keep it out of the congregational gathering for worship and do whatever you want as long as its not sin in your own personal piety. Wow, I may have been listening to too much R. Scott Clark?...

 

[Andres]

Gloria hit it on the spot. Some of us don't realize that some of our "responses" to certain types of music are "culturally" learned. Once again, read Romans 14.

This is not neccessarily true. For myself, it was culturally acceptable to love hip hop. I grew up with its influences all around me and I did very much enjoy it, however as I matured as a Believer, God changed my preference for music. Now I don't care for hip hop, even though most people want to assume I do. My brothers and I grew up in the exact same culture and they love hip-hop music and lifestyle and are totally enmeshed in it. I choose not to be. Culturally speaking, hundred year old hymns set to a single piano make no sense for me, but God has turned my heart to where now they are my preference.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

I don't think the issue here is whether or not the genre itself is sinful, but whether or not the musical genre is an appropriate channel for the gospel message.

This sounds AWFULLY familiar.....similar to what the Roman Catholic Church said about any language other than Latin being appropriate for the translating of scripture, since Latin had become the 'language of the church'.

In other words, all musical styles communicate some sort of subliminal attitudes.

You mean like classical music can be thought of as communicating an air of snobbery and superiority (aka pride) ?

There is a reason that we exercise to fast music

Everyone doesn't excercise to fast music. Folks who stretch are often doing so on slower music. You can't even say 'the majority of people' because all people are different. I'll hit the elliptical and listen to every track off of the Pirates III soundtrack (I *love* Hans Zimmer). I'll also hit the elliptical and work out off of

Nor do they all fall asleep to slow music. I fall asleep to Giant Steps and Mr. P.C.by John Coltrane. My students often listen to faster music to relax (after a stressful day at school) than slow music. Our school plays jazz over the P.A. system of various tempi as well as classical music of various tempi and it all works well to calm the students down. The same music that, 50 years ago, was used to excite people....doesn't. Maybe your opening statement assumes a bit too much and is not based on any other experience outside of your own.

To me, the question is: does the style coincide with the message? Does it highlight the message, make it beautiful, exalt it above the channel it is flowing through?

The problem with this statement is that you're assuming your own personal standard of beauty is correct and judging everything off of that. Tim Brindle's The Excellency of Christ is quite beautiful musically (my degree is music education, I teach band and music survey, compose, arrange and have played saxophone for 24+ years, piano for 20+, and several other instruments for 8+ years each so I'm a little qualified to make that statement).

I've been in a church sanctuary when Tim has performed this and near the end of the song, usually there's one of two things happening: people are either dead silent and contemplating the lyrics and the message or have hands raised and praising God audibly for His great mercy toward them.

And to me it is clear: the hip-hop style and culture is a distraction and a hindrance to the gospel message.

And you are quite fallible in your opinion. As I posted on the first page - listen through shai linne's Justified or Gospel Music, follow the lyrics and then make an assessment. It's really interesting how a new 'crop' of younger folks who love the doctrines of grace seem to understand the gospel message well, have been driven to the scriptures to study them more, found themselves reading all these old dead guys (Tim Brindle's entire CD, Killing Sin...if you read the titles of the track, you'd realize he's been reading a LOT of Jonathan Edwards....). So reality and fact stand starkly against your statement and shows it to simply be untrue.

I'd say the same thing about other styles as well. A advertising jingle that might be cute and helpful in selling ice-cream cones is not appropriate when we're trying to communicate the weightiness of the gospel message. The style is inconsistent with the message.

The flaw within this argument, however, is that one could say the same thing about ANY style of music (let's pick on classical - specifically the Renaissance for a moment). William Byrd's La Volta (the dance that goes with the song and the culture associated with the dance) were not things which were exalting of God, but of men, their riches and their airs of superiority (as the dance necessitated that the dancers be limber, since there are a lot of turns and twists in it...along with leaping...which would have made it 'scandalous').

Palestrina came out of the same time period. *Gasp* He used the same musical style and produced music for the church.

Or better said:

Of course, when people look outside of music and judge things to be worldly by association they are unwilling to be truly consistent. Did you know that the internet is used extensively for p0rnography? And are you using the internet? *GASP*

Come on, there is nothing in Scripture that describes this type of music as ungodly. Just like the internet, sexuality, or food, hip hop music is only sinful if sin is involved. The internet with lust; sexuality with adultery; food with gluttony; hip hop with various iniquities. In itself, the genre is not sinful, just like the other things listed.

For my own little journey, I used to be a de facto legalist and decree all hip hop sinful because of what I saw in secular hip hop. Of course, I was seeing sin in the object and not the heart and conveniently ignored my inconsistency. Once I started listening to brothers such as Lecrae, Shai Linne, FLAME, and others, I quickly became hooked because the beats that I enjoyed were accompanied by solid theology. I came to realize the difference between this Lecrae hip hop CD and a CD with classic hymns: PREFERENCE.

Well said.

Could a Christian world-view, outside of her influence from the world, produce hip hop music? Rock? Country? Jazz?

I'm of the opinion that these styles of music are closer to sounding like wailing and gnashing of teeth than producing any actual harmony.

Could it produce symphonies operas bluegrass or gospel apart from these influences?

An excellent answer to that question. The author (puritanhope) makes the same mistake most of the critics of christian hip hop continue to make - assuming your own cultural standard is the only acceptable one and trying to force your definitions of beauty onto others where there is no biblical mandate to do so.

Could it produce symphonies operas bluegrass or gospel apart from these influences?

The Christian world-view is one that produces harmony, beauty, and order.

So poetry written in sets of lines that rhyme, grouped every 16 measures, using illustrations and allegorical language to communicate biblical truth placed over a well engineered beat (usually between 80-106 beats per minute) containing strings, piano and/or other electronic sounds in a paritcular musical key with the words being said in a particular rhythmic fashion..... is not order ?

A singer whose voice is layered over the track singing in a particular key on the hook/chorus (particularly singing a major triad)....is not beauty and harmony ?

Music should deeply stir emotions within the soul of a believer, causing him to meditate on righteousness, holiness, and truth.

So....what you're saying is:
Why I'm pleased to sing? - Because you're my Lord and Savior! /
My High priest and King- and the worlds Creator/
My Shepard and Master whom I adore and applaud/
The image of the Father- You are the Glory of God/
It's blushing in your face/
I'm smothered in your grace/
Which nothing can erase/
Because you suffered in my place/
You get all praise from the sinner pleading/
Though you finished bleeding/
You're still busy interceding/
I'm forgiven because you made the amazing ascension/
You're my wisdom and sanctification redemption/
Your perfect life is credited to my account/
Yo I'ma worship Christ forever kid I'ma shout ("WORTHY!")/
Levitate when I meditate on Your Excellencies/
You bled on my stead- my federal head- You represent me/
Your death was the fee- so your elect can be free/
Called us effectually- it was predestined to be.

Hook:
In Christ we're free because His price redeems us/
Exciting me enticing me to flee lust/
Refrain form sin- its ways are grim/
There's no greater thing- to delight in Jesus

Does NOT stir the emotions of the believer and cause him/her to meditate on things good, righteous and holy ?

Riiiight.

You're also saying that the music used for the track is lacking in harmony ? I'd like your musical analysis of the track. What instruments do you play and what key is it in ? What's disorganized about it ?

And then there is some music that produces rebellion, chaos, hatred of God, and neighbor. I will simply leave it at that.

You mean like "To Anacreon in Heaven" ? Seems like that particular song inspires patriotism in many others who sing it at the opening of baseball and football games.

(to those who haven't figured it out yet......look it up on Wikipedia. I won't link to a video for the song, but the melody is very well known, since it was played every time we won a gold medal at the olympics).

If Hells Bells is all you have, you have a pretty weak argument. Remember video links I posted on the front page - ANY genre can (and has) been used for things unrighteous. So blaming the genre is a way of smuggling personal preference into your assessment and trying to pass it off as biblical mandate.

I think Gloria's observations (re: cultural elitism) are very accurate in describing most arguments against Christian Hip Hop. That and flat out ignorance.

To be fair, there are some artists I would not recommend because similar to their CCM counterparts, their content is not God-exalting and God-honoring.

 

[Philip]

BTW, secular music composed for entertainment with religious content has a long history in music. Handel's Messiah, for example, was never intended to be part of regular worship, nor was Bach's Mass in b Minor (the thing is two hours long--obviously not for an actual mass), nor was Thomas Tallis's 40-part masterpiece Spem in Alium (one of the most beautiful pieces produced during the English reformation). If I can sing a psalm or hymn while mowing the lawn, I can sing it in a performance setting.

You do know, by the way, that Roman Catholics used similar arguments during the Reformation with regard to using polyphony (singing in parts rather than simple melody) and folk tunes as a basis for hymns and psalm settings.