Oral Roberts Has Died

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CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
He told Benny Hinn and others (who then spread the "prophecy") that God had told him that he was going to die when he was 90. So even his death points to him being a false prophet.
 

strangecharm

Puritan Board Freshman
This man is in God's hands now. Let us not judge him, but hopefully we can learn from the mistakes he has made, and set out to repair whatever damage has been done.
 

AThornquist

Puritan Board Doctor
I'm not sure how to respond to this. I have a mixture of sadness for the family yet joy that this man is gone. He led so many people astray . . . I just don't know if it's appropriate to have joy in his death. I dare not say he was not a Christian. That's not my place. If he was indeed saved but very misguided, having joy about his death is even more troubling.

Blah. Yeah, I don't know how to respond.


But hey, Al Mohler will be discussing Roberts' death today on his radio program with historian/biographer David Edwin Harrell and charismania/WOF debunker Justin Peters. Sweet!
 

DMcFadden

Puritanboard Commissioner
Andrew, you captured my sentiments! I will not judge his salvation but grieve over the myriads of errors foisted upon a credulous public. He and his ilk gave us all a bad name. The loss of a fellow human being is almost always a cause for sadness. But, wow is this a conflicted situation.
 

Scott1

Puritanboard Commissioner
I really do want to be as charitable as possible. There are many people who came to Christ through the deceased's imperfect theology and ministry, particularly in the time he did tent crusades and his early television broadcasts.

He helped give people with disease hope, not really on a solid theological basis though, but God used it somewhat to bless people.

He did preach a basic Gospel, God used it, and in the end God gave him a long life and an admirable spirit of perseverance in face of what he perceived as persecution for the Christian faith.
 

Amazing Grace

Puritan Board Junior
I really do want to be as charitable as possible. There are many people who came to Christ through the deceased's imperfect theology and ministry, particularly in the time he did tent crusades and his early television broadcasts.

He helped give people with disease hope, not really on a solid theological basis though, but God used it somewhat to bless people.

He did preach a basic Gospel, God used it, and in the end God gave him a long life and an admirable spirit of perseverance in face of what he perceived as persecution for the Christian faith.
I have always been conflicted in a situation like this Scott. Can God use a false Gospel to draw His elect? Perhaps it could be another thread.
 

AThornquist

Puritan Board Doctor
Did Roberts preach a false gospel all of the time though? Perhaps a weak gospel. An anemic gospel. But the Lord is mighty to save. (I really don't know if he was big on health, wealth, and prosperity.)
 

earl40

Puritan Board Professor
I wonder what John MacArthur is thinking. Or better yet, did his second of the six part series come out yet?
 

Knoxienne

Puritan Board Graduate
He was a false prophet who deceived countless people. I can't say what God is doing with him at this moment. I only know what God's Word says about false prophets. And it's not pretty. :(
 

Scott1

Puritanboard Commissioner
The Oral Roberts Evangelist Association gave out many Bibles and much literature with a basic gospel.

This doesn't excuse the false basis of his "seed faith" teachings and other teachings, but he really began as an evangelist. He was a Pastor in a couple denominations as well.
 

carlgobelman

Puritan Board Freshman
All I can say is, "God, have mercy on his soul." Aside from that, when false teachers pass on, the gospel wins.
 

Andres

Puritan Board Doctor
Did Roberts preach a false gospel all of the time though? Perhaps a weak gospel. An anemic gospel. But the Lord is mighty to save. (I really don't know if he was big on health, wealth, and prosperity.)
To say Roberts was big on the health and wealth false gospel would be a huge understatement! Roberts was one of the pioneers of the disgusting prosperity gospel. Here is an excerpt from a Time Magazine article from 1987:

So far, 1987 has been a checkered and chastening year for the Rev. Oral Roberts, 69. Last January the Tulsa-based TV evangelist announced that if he did not receive $8 million from donors by March 31, God would "call me home." The money was raised, but Roberts' dramatic ultimatum provoked widespread derision. He drew additional gibes by declaring that his wife Evelyn had come to his rescue when the devil visited his bedroom and tried to strangle him. Then, in May, Roberts mailed 1 million packets of "healing" water to followers, advising them to use it to "anoint your billfold" to solve money problems and "anoint your body" to allay physical ills.
You can read the entire article here - Religion: Raising Eyebrows and the Dead

Sorry but I refuse to pretend that this man was a faithful minister of God's Word. As many others have stated, I will not judge Roberts position before God, but I do think that we can judge his fruit. The article above is only a small portion of some of the disgusting charades Roberts committed in the name of our precious Lord. I refuse to bestow any accolades upon this man and outside of respect for being created in God's image, I have zero respect for him either.
 

Knoxienne

Puritan Board Graduate
Did Roberts preach a false gospel all of the time though? Perhaps a weak gospel. An anemic gospel. But the Lord is mighty to save. (I really don't know if he was big on health, wealth, and prosperity.)
To say Roberts was big on the health and wealth false gospel would be a huge understatement! Roberts was one of the pioneers of the disgusting prosperity gospel. Here is an excerpt from a Time Magazine article from 1987:

So far, 1987 has been a checkered and chastening year for the Rev. Oral Roberts, 69. Last January the Tulsa-based TV evangelist announced that if he did not receive $8 million from donors by March 31, God would "call me home." The money was raised, but Roberts' dramatic ultimatum provoked widespread derision. He drew additional gibes by declaring that his wife Evelyn had come to his rescue when the devil visited his bedroom and tried to strangle him. Then, in May, Roberts mailed 1 million packets of "healing" water to followers, advising them to use it to "anoint your billfold" to solve money problems and "anoint your body" to allay physical ills.
You can read the entire article here - Religion: Raising Eyebrows and the Dead

Sorry but I refuse to pretend that this man was a faithful minister of God's Word. As many others have stated, I will not judge Roberts position before God, but I do think that we can judge his fruit. The article above is only a small portion of some of the disgusting charades Roberts committed in the name of our precious Lord. I refuse to bestow any accolades upon this man and outside of respect for being created in God's image, I have zero respect for him either.
Amen. It's pretty easy. I don't know what the controversy is.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I don't think of it as a controversy. It is about having respect for the dead and being gracious. No one is saying he was a great preacher or that he was not a false prophet. Some are simply recognizing that God brought about the salvation of some through his ministry.
 

TKarrer

Puritan Board Freshman
God showed Himself mighty to save by taking what satan meant for evil (the preaching of Oral Roberts) and turning it for good (saving His elect).

The Word of God couldnt be clearer that a false teacher will be met with merciless Judgment. If we can conclude that Mr. Roberts taught heresy, than we can conclude he is suffering the torments of God's just wrath right now. This isn't lacking grace, this is stating fact.

I pray bold men of God will speak plainly about his condemnation, and that God would use it to bring something far more significant to his family than temporal comfort; namely, their salvation. I grieve for their loss; but not as someone who doesnt realize their end is the same as his if they do not see things as they are, and instead ultimately reject Christ.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
God showed Himself mighty to save by taking what satan meant for evil (the preaching of Oral Roberts) and turning it for good (saving His elect).

The Word of God couldnt be clearer that a false teacher will be met with merciless Judgment. If we can conclude that Mr. Roberts taught heresy, than we can conclude he is suffering the torments of God's just wrath right now. This isn't lacking grace, this is stating fact.

I pray bold men of God will speak plainly about his condemnation, and that God would use it to bring something far more significant to his family than temporal comfort; namely, their salvation. I grieve for their loss; but not as someone who doesnt realize their end is the same as his if they do not see things as they are, and instead ultimately reject Christ.
I think you are stretching to say that the prosperity gospel automatically condemns people to Hell. I am not saying it is a good theology by any means, but I know of people who are wrapped up in this garbage, but I would not doubt their salvation for a second.
 

Berean

Puritanboard Commissioner
He told Benny Hinn and others (who then spread the "prophecy") that God had told him that he was going to die when he was 90. So even his death points to him being a false prophet.
Does anyone remember when the funding for his medical school was falling short? He announced that God had told him that he would die if the money wasn't raised. He actually appealed to donors to "extend my life" by donating to the building fund.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
He told Benny Hinn and others (who then spread the "prophecy") that God had told him that he was going to die when he was 90. So even his death points to him being a false prophet.
Does anyone remember when the funding for his medical school was falling short? He announced that God had told him that he would die if the money wasn't raised. He actually appealed to donors to "extend my life" by donating to the building fund.
I do know of the story. My mom was working at the hospital at the time. She was also in the audience when the donor gave the amount needed.
 

TKarrer

Puritan Board Freshman
God showed Himself mighty to save by taking what satan meant for evil (the preaching of Oral Roberts) and turning it for good (saving His elect).

The Word of God couldnt be clearer that a false teacher will be met with merciless Judgment. If we can conclude that Mr. Roberts taught heresy, than we can conclude he is suffering the torments of God's just wrath right now. This isn't lacking grace, this is stating fact.

I pray bold men of God will speak plainly about his condemnation, and that God would use it to bring something far more significant to his family than temporal comfort; namely, their salvation. I grieve for their loss; but not as someone who doesnt realize their end is the same as his if they do not see things as they are, and instead ultimately reject Christ.
I think you are stretching to say that the prosperity gospel automatically condemns people to Hell. I am not saying it is a good theology by any means, but I know of people who are wrapped up in this garbage, but I would not doubt their salvation for a second.
I agree with you; but I believe that those who propagate it as (self-proclaimed) "prophets" and teachers fall under a different category. It is false prophets who will be condemned; not necessarily the sheep they deceived.
 

Amazing Grace

Puritan Board Junior
God showed Himself mighty to save by taking what satan meant for evil (the preaching of Oral Roberts) and turning it for good (saving His elect).

The Word of God couldnt be clearer that a false teacher will be met with merciless Judgment. If we can conclude that Mr. Roberts taught heresy, than we can conclude he is suffering the torments of God's just wrath right now. This isn't lacking grace, this is stating fact.

I pray bold men of God will speak plainly about his condemnation, and that God would use it to bring something far more significant to his family than temporal comfort; namely, their salvation. I grieve for their loss; but not as someone who doesnt realize their end is the same as his if they do not see things as they are, and instead ultimately reject Christ.
I think you are stretching to say that the prosperity gospel automatically condemns people to Hell. I am not saying it is a good theology by any means, but I know of people who are wrapped up in this garbage, but I would not doubt their salvation for a second.
When Christ said the Holy Spirit would lead His chosen to the truth, do you think he meant what OR taught? I am having a hard time with the thought of being gracious to a false prophet when scripture warns us repeatedly to avoid them. I cannot find one example of a chosen of God giving the right hand of fellowship to a teacher of Baal.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
God showed Himself mighty to save by taking what satan meant for evil (the preaching of Oral Roberts) and turning it for good (saving His elect).

The Word of God couldnt be clearer that a false teacher will be met with merciless Judgment. If we can conclude that Mr. Roberts taught heresy, than we can conclude he is suffering the torments of God's just wrath right now. This isn't lacking grace, this is stating fact.

I pray bold men of God will speak plainly about his condemnation, and that God would use it to bring something far more significant to his family than temporal comfort; namely, their salvation. I grieve for their loss; but not as someone who doesnt realize their end is the same as his if they do not see things as they are, and instead ultimately reject Christ.
I think you are stretching to say that the prosperity gospel automatically condemns people to Hell. I am not saying it is a good theology by any means, but I know of people who are wrapped up in this garbage, but I would not doubt their salvation for a second.
When Christ said the Holy Spirit would lead His chosen to the truth, do you think he meant what OR taught? I am having a hard time with the thought of being gracious to a false prophet when scripture warns us repeatedly to avoid them. I cannot find one example of a chosen of God giving the right hand of fellowship to a teacher of Baal.
Yes, but OR was not a teacher of Baal. He still pointed people to Christ. He may have been completely wrong about alot of things, but in the end he was still pointing to Christ. He was not pointing to Baal or any other "god".
 

Scott1

Puritanboard Commissioner
Thankfully, we can believe many wrong things and still end up in Heaven.

That does not take away from the fact that misrepresenting God's Word, through ignorance or wrong motive is sin. It is especially egregious for those who presume to teach and lead God's people.

And there are consequences for sin- here and in the hereafter.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that God saves us by His grace alone, by giving us saving faith in Christ's righteousness alone.

Yes, there must be some evidence of that, reasonably over time, and the church is charged to protect that witness... but we can believe many wrong things, suffer for it, and still, most undeservedly make it into His Kingdom.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Thankfully, we can believe many wrong things and still end up in Heaven.

That does not take away from the fact that misrepresenting God's Word, through ignorance or wrong motive is sin. It is especially egregious for those who presume to teach and lead God's people.

And there are consequences for sin- here and in the hereafter.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that God saves us by His grace alone, by giving us saving faith in Christ's righteousness alone.

Yes, there must be some evidence of that, reasonably over time, and the church is charged to protect that witness... but we can believe many wrong things, suffer for it, and still, most undeservedly make it into His Kingdom.
:amen:
 

Backwoods Presbyterian

Puritanboard Amanuensis
I think you are stretching to say that the prosperity gospel automatically condemns people to Hell. I am not saying it is a good theology by any means, but I know of people who are wrapped up in this garbage, but I would not doubt their salvation for a second.
When Christ said the Holy Spirit would lead His chosen to the truth, do you think he meant what OR taught? I am having a hard time with the thought of being gracious to a false prophet when scripture warns us repeatedly to avoid them. I cannot find one example of a chosen of God giving the right hand of fellowship to a teacher of Baal.
Yes, but OR was not a teacher of Baal. He still pointed people to Christ. He may have been completely wrong about alot of things, but in the end he was still pointing to Christ. He was not pointing to Baal or any other "god".
Just because a man yells "Jesus" in a crowded theater does not mean he is pointing people to Christ. See 2 Peter 2.
 

CIT

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
When Christ said the Holy Spirit would lead His chosen to the truth, do you think he meant what OR taught? I am having a hard time with the thought of being gracious to a false prophet when scripture warns us repeatedly to avoid them. I cannot find one example of a chosen of God giving the right hand of fellowship to a teacher of Baal.
Yes, but OR was not a teacher of Baal. He still pointed people to Christ. He may have been completely wrong about alot of things, but in the end he was still pointing to Christ. He was not pointing to Baal or any other "god".
Just because a man yells "Jesus" in a crowded theater does not mean he is pointing people to Christ. See 2 Peter 2.
But it doesn't mean the guy is a heretic and going to Hell.
 

Backwoods Presbyterian

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Yes, but OR was not a teacher of Baal. He still pointed people to Christ. He may have been completely wrong about alot of things, but in the end he was still pointing to Christ. He was not pointing to Baal or any other "god".
Just because a man yells "Jesus" in a crowded theater does not mean he is pointing people to Christ. See 2 Peter 2.
But it doesn't mean the guy is a heretic and going to Hell.
You don't think Oral Roberts taught and promoted heresy?
 
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