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Oral Roberts was a false prophet, and if he died without repentance and trust in the true Lord and Savior, he is in hell. That said, none of us know what happened on his death bed. God very well may have convicted him of his sin and brought him to faith; or He may not have. Either way, what he taught from his pulpit was damnable heresy. We are all guilty of the crime of damnable heresy at some point in our lives. We should all thank God that He is gracious and saves damnable heretics.
I don't think of it as a controversy. It is about having respect for the dead and being gracious. No one is saying he was a great preacher or that he was not a false prophet. Some are simply recognizing that God brought about the salvation of some through his ministry.
Just because a man yells "Jesus" in a crowded theater does not mean he is pointing people to Christ. See 2 Peter 2.
But it doesn't mean the guy is a heretic and going to Hell.
You don't think Oral Roberts taught and promoted heresy?
That being said, I do not know everything about Oral Roberts so I may be missing something. From what I have seen, I do not think he promoted heresy. Teaching that Jesus is a miracle worker is not heresy, I just think OR was wrong about how this all worked out. Teaching the prosperity Gospel is not heresy, it is a "bill of goods and pile of ****" to quote Piper.
At the end of his tent revivals, he would give an altar call that is just like 90% of the churches in the world today. In fact, I would venture to say that the altar calls are not that much different from Billy Graham's and I don't think we would call him a heretic. If he was constantly pointing people to the saving work of Christ, then I can't consider him a heretic. I do not throw that word around lightly.
OR's theology consisted of the basic tenets of Christianity mixed with error (as someone pointed out in the other thread). The same could be said about everyone. Even MacArthur admits that he is wrong about somethings (and if he knew what it was he would change it). Think about it, either paedo or cred baptism is right. Both can't be. Either amil, postmil, premil, or Dispensational premil is right, all can't be. At what point do we say that someone has too much error and becomes a heretic? 30%? 40%? 50%?
I don't think a percentage can be given. I think it comes down to certain beliefs. OR believed in salvation through Christ alone, and I have not seen anything where OR takes away anything from the nature of God. He believes in a sovereign all powerful personal God who loves his children. Out of this love he sees God working miracles and blessing people.
Was OR wrong about things? yes. Did he prophecy stuff that did not come true? yes.
does this make him a heretic? I will let God determine the condition of his soul. I recommend you do the same.
He told Benny Hinn and others (who then spread the "prophecy") that God had told him that he was going to die when he was 90. So even his death points to him being a false prophet.
Does anyone remember when the funding for his medical school was falling short? He announced that God had told him that he would die if the money wasn't raised. He actually appealed to donors to "extend my life" by donating to the building fund.
I do know of the story. My mom was working at the hospital at the time. She was also in the audience when the donor gave the amount needed.
But it doesn't mean the guy is a heretic and going to Hell.
You don't think Oral Roberts taught and promoted heresy?
My comment was directed more towards the imaginary guy yelling "Jesus."
That being said, I do not know everything about Oral Roberts so I may be missing something. From what I have seen, I do not think he promoted heresy. Teaching that Jesus is a miracle worker is not heresy, I just think OR was wrong about how this all worked out. Teaching the prosperity Gospel is not heresy, it is a "bill of goods and pile of ****" to quote Piper.
At the end of his tent revivals, he would give an altar call that is just like 90% of the churches in the world today. In fact, I would venture to say that the altar calls are not that much different from Billy Graham's and I don't think we would call him a heretic. If he was constantly pointing people to the saving work of Christ, then I can't consider him a heretic. I do not throw that word around lightly.
OR's theology consisted of the basic tenets of Christianity mixed with error (as someone pointed out in the other thread). The same could be said about everyone. Even MacArthur admits that he is wrong about somethings (and if he knew what it was he would change it). Think about it, either paedo or cred baptism is right. Both can't be. Either amil, postmil, premil, or Dispensational premil is right, all can't be. At what point do we say that someone has too much error and becomes a heretic? 30%? 40%? 50%?
I don't think a percentage can be given. I think it comes down to certain beliefs. OR believed in salvation through Christ alone, and I have not seen anything where OR takes away anything from the nature of God. He believes in a sovereign all powerful personal God who loves his children. Out of this love he sees God working miracles and blessing people.
Was OR wrong about things? yes. Did he prophecy stuff that did not come true? yes.
does this make him a heretic? I will let God determine the condition of his soul. I recommend you do the same.
You don't think Oral Roberts taught and promoted heresy?
My comment was directed more towards the imaginary guy yelling "Jesus."
That being said, I do not know everything about Oral Roberts so I may be missing something. From what I have seen, I do not think he promoted heresy. Teaching that Jesus is a miracle worker is not heresy, I just think OR was wrong about how this all worked out. Teaching the prosperity Gospel is not heresy, it is a "bill of goods and pile of ****" to quote Piper.
At the end of his tent revivals, he would give an altar call that is just like 90% of the churches in the world today. In fact, I would venture to say that the altar calls are not that much different from Billy Graham's and I don't think we would call him a heretic. If he was constantly pointing people to the saving work of Christ, then I can't consider him a heretic. I do not throw that word around lightly.
OR's theology consisted of the basic tenets of Christianity mixed with error (as someone pointed out in the other thread). The same could be said about everyone. Even MacArthur admits that he is wrong about somethings (and if he knew what it was he would change it). Think about it, either paedo or cred baptism is right. Both can't be. Either amil, postmil, premil, or Dispensational premil is right, all can't be. At what point do we say that someone has too much error and becomes a heretic? 30%? 40%? 50%?
I don't think a percentage can be given. I think it comes down to certain beliefs. OR believed in salvation through Christ alone, and I have not seen anything where OR takes away anything from the nature of God. He believes in a sovereign all powerful personal God who loves his children. Out of this love he sees God working miracles and blessing people.
Was OR wrong about things? yes. Did he prophecy stuff that did not come true? yes.
does this make him a heretic? I will let God determine the condition of his soul. I recommend you do the same.
With all do respect Oral Roberts taught practically nothing but heresy. Due to the impreciseness of his theology he often taught a modalistic view of the Trinity (heresy). He did not teach the Biblical gospel of Jesus Christ's substitutionary death on the cross and he was not a confused Arminian but a full-blown Pelagian (heresy). There is more there but I do not feel the need to go on.
If speaking ill of the dead is wrong, then Peter and Jude were guilty of the same when they spoke of Cain, Balaam, and Korah. We should then never speak ill of Finney, Pelagius, or Arius.
OR would fit right in with those fellows, having taught much the same as they.
It may garner me demerit in the eyes of some, but I have no reluctance to state plainly that OR was a flaming heretic, and if his death will result in fewer of the elect having to spend time, or a shorter time, under the misery of the teachings he promulgated, I for one am relieved at his demise.
If speaking ill of the dead is wrong, then Peter and Jude were guilty of the same when they spoke of Cain, Balaam, and Korah. We should then never speak ill of Finney, Pelagius, or Arius.
OR would fit right in with those fellows, having taught much the same as they.
It may garner me demerit in the eyes of some, but I have no reluctance to state plainly that OR was a flaming heretic, and if his death will result in fewer of the elect having to spend time, or a shorter time, under the misery of the teachings he promulgated, I for one am relieved at his demise.
There is a difference between pointing out the faults of those who have passed, and throwing a party that someone is burning in Hell. This is all I meant about having respect.
Albert Mohler has just posted his thoughts on Oral Roberts and his passing on his blog.
AlbertMohler.com
To compare Dr. John MacArthur to Oral Roberts is beyond apples to oranges. That's more like apples to motorcycles in my book.
If speaking ill of the dead is wrong, then Peter and Jude were guilty of the same when they spoke of Cain, Balaam, and Korah. We should then never speak ill of Finney, Pelagius, or Arius.
OR would fit right in with those fellows, having taught much the same as they.
It may garner me demerit in the eyes of some, but I have no reluctance to state plainly that OR was a flaming heretic, and if his death will result in fewer of the elect having to spend time, or a shorter time, under the misery of the teachings he promulgated, I for one am relieved at his demise.
There is a difference between pointing out the faults of those who have passed, and throwing a party that someone is burning in Hell. This is all I meant about having respect.
I agree with this to a point. But do not forget. the elect of God will sing praises as the damned smoke rises up forever and ever in the eschalon.
I wonder what John MacArthur is thinking. Or better yet, did his second of the six part series come out yet?
Part 2 is out
I wonder what John MacArthur is thinking. Or better yet, did his second of the six part series come out yet?
Part 2 is out
What six part series are you all speaking of?